EU4 Things You dislike?

[Patrick Star Fan]

I started a rant channel on YouTube called TheSpartanRant.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVYfbnATn9cjTfDgVh0OU0A
Anyway, I have two videos up: One criticizing Creationism and the other criticizing bad TV shows. I was thinking of making a Rant on an EU4-related thing.

BTW-I am not requesting subscriptions, I just wanted to point out where the rants will go.

[mrtwinn]

I think someone's already mentioned the AI's pathfinding advantage- it can cross through provinces that contain your castles while enemy castles put you in a straitjacket.

[mrtwinn]

Escrito originalmente por Velvatine Rabbit:

This game is more of a chance kinda game. Which isn't all that bad at times however It's super rare for anything good to happen in or for your nation. Also the game gives certain nations clear advantages over others and the AI always has an advantage especially on Ironman. Play a small nation and well your ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Anything outside the HRE/ Europe is normally not as bad. You'll still have issues but you won't have the emperor breathing down your neck every time you take a ♥♥♥♥ or breath ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ air. And don't even let me get started with Sweden and Poland. I know the devs are mostly from that region but come on... Really?:AngrySword::AngrySword::AngrySword:

You can mitigate the difficulties posed by the HRE somewhat. Either vassalise the countries you defeat and absorb them later, or take multiple provinces in one go so that you can hand one back when the Emperor comes calling. It'll still be slow going; you have to wait several years at least between conquests for Aggressive Expansion penalties to cool down, and Annexation makes it hard to make friends (still probably better than the host of penalties you accrue for holding Unlawful territory).

Small HRE cities are tricky; I've changed my mind about the Common Sense pack and think you really need it to make a small city viable. Spending Monarch Points to increase starting city's development helps; mainly spend Adminstrative Power since that nets you more monthly income, avoid spending Military Power on development since you really can't afford to fall behind militarily. Getting Poland as an ally is doable and makes blobbing much easier, but depends heavily on starting conditions and still won't allow really fast expansion.

I hope that's helpful.

[HipHobbes]

Escrito originalmente por DerWizard:

You try to measure technological advances by population, which is just nonsense. If it was the case, then most likely Aztecs would not lose to Conquistadors. Altough it is true that Asia contained a significant amount of wealth, but it was only so becuase of demand from Europe. Think of the silk route from China to Europe. The whole value of silk and Asian goods was because of the huge demand from Europe - otherwise it would have little value, if not at all.

I do admit that a lot of technological advances came from Asia (cannons, compass), as well as military knowledge of both Ming (Art of War) and Japan (Bushido) but it would be a mistake to argue that Japan and Ming had any serious military power at that time for various reasons, primarily for a lack of unity within a state. The best evidence for that is Ming itself - it is the dynasty which was formed on the ashes of previous Mongol dynasty, Yuan, that received a little resistance when they invaded China.

If we talk about 1444, then we also need to keep in mind polical instability of both countries, both prior and especially after this year. Both Ming and Japan had strugged for centuries due to wars (in case of Ming) and civil wars (a period known as Sengoku in Japan) and politics of isolationism (this is especially the case for Japan, which remained isolationist until 20th century), and therefore did not even explore the neighboring territories - can you imagine that Russia colonized Far East before Japan did so, and even got some of their islands?. Also, if you think that Chinese fleet was so advanced - why was it Europeans who made almost all major discoveries in THEIR region, such as Philipinnes (discovered by Spanish) , Taiwan (discovered by Dutch)?

Additionally, why did Europeans found the trading centers in Asia (Macau, Hong Kong), and not vice versa, colonized both America and Australia, all islands in the Pacific, while it would be logical to assume that if Ming had so powerful fleet, they should have stopped European dominance in the Pacific. And one more thing - you said what would happen if Portuguese lived together with Japanese - do you know that the city of Nagasaki in Japan was founded by Portuguese, and it remained one of their major ports in Asia (and many historicans believe it was also the only window of Japan into the world)

Dude, you have a lot of catching up to do. This is EXACTLY the kind of eurocentric view of world history which this game caters to. Unfortunately, your text contains so many factual errors. First of all, the native American civilizations were mainly brought to their knees by the diseases the Conquistadores brought with them. Without the smallpox and other pathogens, the Conquistadores would not have had the numbers to overcome Aztec or Inca resistance.
Demand from Europe was not the driving force of Asian trade in the year 1444 (How could it be? They weren't there yet). Most of the trade was inner-Asian. The silk trade between Japan and China alone was larger than the trade volume of all Western Europe combined. And if we have to compare military power: At the battle of Sekigahara, the opposing sides in that battle had about 90000 well-trained samurai. So we're talking about 180000 soldiers at a time when a battle in Europe was considered large with like 30000 to 40000 soldiers. And the Europeans did not make all the discoveries in Asia. You might want to read a bit about the seven voyages of the Chinese admiral Zheng He. And Japanese isolationism was not enacted until the mid-17th century. Before that, Japan had rather extensive trade relations. And the Portuguese did not found the city of Nagasaki but were given a small enclosed area in Nagasaki habor. BTW, the Japanese government later only allowed Dutch and English traders there. Sure, Macau had a Portuguese colony and Hong Kong was made important by the British but it did not have the quasi exterritorial status we know about until the 19th century.
The European dominance in Asia most Europeans remember did not start until the late 18th century.
So why did the Europeans "discover" Asia and not viceversa?....well, mostly because the Europeans had nothing they really wanted.

[northernwater]

Escrito originalmente por Ultrix Prime:

Then you can set stack with on your units and chase allies around trying to get them to stack with you. Just don't run an old patch where it worked consistently :)

AI Allies are so dumb sometimes I cringe. They stream march to their death in 1K or 2K groups.

[Saint]

Escrito originalmente por DerWizard:

You try to measure technological advances by population, which is just nonsense. If it was the case, then most likely Aztecs would not lose to Conquistadors. Altough it is true that Asia contained a significant amount of wealth, but it was only so becuase of demand from Europe. Think of the silk route from China to Europe. The whole value of silk and Asian goods was because of the huge demand from Europe - otherwise it would have little value, if not at all.

I do admit that a lot of technological advances came from Asia (cannons, compass), as well as military knowledge of both Ming (Art of War) and Japan (Bushido) but it would be a mistake to argue that Japan and Ming had any serious military power at that time for various reasons, primarily for a lack of unity within a state. The best evidence for that is Ming itself - it is the dynasty which was formed on the ashes of previous Mongol dynasty, Yuan, that received a little resistance when they invaded China.

If we talk about 1444, then we also need to keep in mind polical instability of both countries, both prior and especially after this year. Both Ming and Japan had strugged for centuries due to wars (in case of Ming) and civil wars (a period known as Sengoku in Japan) and politics of isolationism (this is especially the case for Japan, which remained isolationist until 20th century), and therefore did not even explore the neighboring territories - can you imagine that Russia colonized Far East before Japan did so, and even got some of their islands?. Also, if you think that Chinese fleet was so advanced - why was it Europeans who made almost all major discoveries in THEIR region, such as Philipinnes (discovered by Spanish) , Taiwan (discovered by Dutch)?

Additionally, why did Europeans found the trading centers in Asia (Macau, Hong Kong), and not vice versa, colonized both America and Australia, all islands in the Pacific, while it would be logical to assume that if Ming had so powerful fleet, they should have stopped European dominance in the Pacific. And one more thing - you said what would happen if Portuguese lived together with Japanese - do you know that the city of Nagasaki in Japan was founded by Portuguese, and it remained one of their major ports in Asia (and many historicans believe it was also the only window of Japan into the world)

I did believe it is very unfair to compare the Aztecs to the China and Japan. They were much much less advance the my people in Asian


But mch more importantly the reason Asian countries didn't set up trade ports and cities in European countries is that they didn't need anything from them. Silk was valuable to Europeans they so they defiantly needed it more the than the Asian countries needed them

( The were of course products the Ming/Qing dynasty and other Asian counties desired greatly but the major thing head actually a recreational drug (so historians argue this drug was only reason they agreed to the trading to begin with but that is not fact )

and a certain points western weapons(but should be noted that countries would developed variations for themselves and manufacture themselves.

However I spefucalize is Japanese history and culture so I can't speak for Ming or Qing but Japan had made expeditions to the new world most famously to new Spain (Mexico) right before there isolation so they were quite capable of reaching the Americas if needed ( if they had been colonial power it is believed the the Colonial region of California would have had so Japanese colonies but again this is just what people think would have happen don't take it as law )

(On a side note you mention the instability of the region however this is not entirely true one of the reason Japan caught itself of with most of the world is because they had had heard and seen went western influence did to countries (one major one that a cause it was the Spanish aggressive attempts to convert Japanese people to Christianity) and deciding if they allowed this continue the country would fracture in warring stattes they for the most part closed off themselves (other thing done were killing people who refused to turn away from Christianity) (on a bit of side side note the isolation was so strict that a certain point so Japanese People who were away from Japan when it began weren't allowed to return.

And while true that they did trade with A few countries during this time it was only those that agreeded to not infer with culture traditions and religious beleif of the island (Dutch in particular stated they had no interested in converting Japan which is why the were still a trading partner at this time)

Now when it comes to winning a war there were few times if any I believe a country could have one a war against Japan (by win a war I meanactually invade and conquere the island) due to fact there were an island nation which had a decent navy ( due in large part a western samurai whose by the name of Adam something (if you play Japan there is an event were high comes to you same guy sort can't remember his name right now) and even when they were in warring states they wouldn't the most part work together to repel the invaders (like they did the Mongols (who invade the hell of I everyone from Asian to Eastern Europe ) twice.

It would be pure speculation whether not they would beat another country if there on the same land mass (but hauls be noted that Japan has successfully fought and defeated China in the past (and one of the main reason they lost some of island to Russia is because Russia fought them after after they had been bombard by the USA in world war 2 )

[DerWizard]

Escrito originalmente por The Death Saint:

I did believe it is very unfair to compare the Aztecs to the China and Japan. They were much much less advance the my people in Asian

I agree - it is unfair, and I never tried to compare Aztec technology (which was pretty advanced for pre-Columbian America though) to that of Ming / Japan. I do not understand how you could see that in my post. I merely said that it is wrong to measure technological advances by the amount of population, which T1 clearly pointed at.

Escrito originalmente por The Death Saint:

It would be pure speculation whether not they would beat another country if there on the same land mass (but hauls be noted that Japan has successfully fought and defeated China in the past (and one of the main reason they lost some of island to Russia is because Russia fought them after after they had been bombard by the USA in world war 2 )

Japan fought China/ Korea in many wars, but I think of the 19-20th century. I am not sure what are you talking about here, other than an attempt to invade in Japan in 13th century when entire fleet was wrecked by typhoon, and some troops landed in Japan which were beaten by Japense.

About Russia - this is not really true. Russia got some of the islands much earlier, and even got access to Korean Sea, which triggered Russian - Japanese War in 1905. This has nothing to do with WWII (other than Kurili islands, which remains an issue until today)

Escrito originalmente por T1:

Dude, you have a lot of catching up to do. This is EXACTLY the kind of eurocentric view of world history which this game caters to. Unfortunately, your text contains so many factual errors. First of all, the native American civilizations were mainly brought to their knees by the diseases the Conquistadores brought with them. Without the smallpox and other pathogens, the Conquistadores would not have had the numbers to overcome Aztec or Inca resistance.
Demand from Europe was not the driving force of Asian trade in the year 1444 (How could it be? They weren't there yet). Most of the trade was inner-Asian. The silk trade between Japan and China alone was larger than the trade volume of all Western Europe combined. And if we have to compare military power: At the battle of Sekigahara, the opposing sides in that battle had about 90000 well-trained samurai. So we're talking about 180000 soldiers at a time when a battle in Europe was considered large with like 30000 to 40000 soldiers. And the Europeans did not make all the discoveries in Asia. You might want to read a bit about the seven voyages of the Chinese admiral Zheng He. And Japanese isolationism was not enacted until the mid-17th century. Before that, Japan had rather extensive trade relations. And the Portuguese did not found the city of Nagasaki but were given a small enclosed area in Nagasaki habor. BTW, the Japanese government later only allowed Dutch and English traders there. Sure, Macau had a Portuguese colony and Hong Kong was made important by the British but it did not have the quasi exterritorial status we know about until the 19th century.
The European dominance in Asia most Europeans remember did not start until the late 18th century.
So why did the Europeans "discover" Asia and not viceversa?....well, mostly because the Europeans had nothing they really wanted.

Surprisingly, I think the same way about you - your view is so Asian-centric, and you fail admit some logical flaws in what you say. Your point about silk road is self-contradictory. You said they were not there yet? If they did not know about the Straight of Magellan - it does not mean they were not there yet, this is just very strange logic in the first place. Silk road boombed in the 13-14th century. You brought an example of Marco Polo, but there were many other adventurers, traders, monks who travelled in China and South Asia, for example, John of Montecorvino, Odoric of Pordenone, etc, and many more. Moreover there is evidence, that Romans and Greek also sailed there (via red sea).

I already said about discoveries in Philippines, Taiwan, Ausralia, etc. If you think it is not enough - then lets continue, Madagascar, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Ascension island, and Saint Helena, were discovered by portuguese, many other importnat trade maps were made by Arab sailors (for example, the most notable one was made for Sicilian King Roger). Also Sumatra and Malacca were discovered by Europeans.


About isolationism - this is not true, Ming fully advanced isolationism politics having laws which banned any sailing abroad starting from 15th century (when game has started). In Japan this has started in 17th century under Tokugawa shogunate, I agree, but you fail to take into account a period of constnat civil wars to consider Japan as unified state at that time, to have any significant sea voyages as Japan (rather than individual factions).

I already said that I do admit lots of things coming from Asia itself, such as technology, wealth, etc. But it will be an overstatement to consider Asian countries to have a comperative naval power as European at that time.

About Nagasaki - again, you contradict yourself. First you say what would happen if Portuguese and Japanese coexisted together implying that Japanese would beat them easily. And then I give you an example of Nagasaki, and you start saying "but they allowed them etc.". Considering isolationist nature of Japense - it seems they were simply forced to do that.

[William]

♥♥♥♥ THE GOLDEN HORDE SO ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MUCH

I can't remember one time they respected a truce. There's no neighboring countries who want to protect Muscovy and it pisses me off.

[DerWizard]

Escrito originalmente por Large Leader:

♥♥♥♥ THE GOLDEN HORDE SO ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MUCH

I can't remember one time they respected a truce. There's no neighboring countries who want to protect Muscovy and it pisses me off.

I agree, Golden Horde is huge for 1444, considering that it was in a decline already and it will be a matter of years until Muscovy fully annexes them.

[William]

Escrito originalmente por DerWizard:

Escrito originalmente por Large Leader:

♥♥♥♥ THE GOLDEN HORDE SO ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MUCH

I can't remember one time they respected a truce. There's no neighboring countries who want to protect Muscovy and it pisses me off.

I agree, Golden Horde is huge for 1444, considering that it was in a decline already and it will be a matter of years until Muscovy fully annexes them.

Exactly. Despite being the remanants of a Khanate, their soldiers can take on mine when their's are entirely infantry, no cavalry. They're mongolians for ♥♥♥♥'s sake!

[Saint]

Escrito originalmente por DerWizard:

Escrito originalmente por The Death Saint:

I did believe it is very unfair to compare the Aztecs to the China and Japan. They were much much less advance the my people in Asian

I agree - it is unfair, and I never tried to compare Aztec technology (which was pretty advanced for pre-Columbian America though) to that of Ming / Japan. I do not understand how you could see that in my post. I merely said that it is wrong to measure technological advances by the amount of population, which T1 clearly pointed at.




Japan fought China/ Korea in many wars, but I think of the 19-20th century. I am not sure what are you talking about here, other than an attempt to invade in Japan in 13th century when entire fleet was wrecked by typhoon, and some troops landed in Japan which were beaten by Japense.

About Russia - this is not really true. Russia got some of the islands much earlier, and even got access to Korean Sea, which triggered Russian - Japanese War in 1905. This has nothing to do with WWII (other than Kurili islands, which remains an issue until today)

To your first point you are correct and i do apologize for this. Size/ population does not mean tech advantage


Also I was referring to the Sino-Japanese wars (especially the first one ) that was fought over the control of Korea were. That was a massive and one sided win for Japan in the first war in 1895

As for the Russia issue I was in fact referring to the Kurilis islands when I referred Russia attacking when Japan was already weak (but the war you mention in 1905 was a victory for Japan as well go Japan :) (irrelevant point just wanted to mention it) .

(as a bit of side note this is why I viciously attack Russia in my Japan games before they even get a chance colonize Serbia )

[tiberiansun371alexw]

IRONMAN SUCKS

[DerWizard]

Escrito originalmente por The Death Saint:

Escrito originalmente por DerWizard:

I agree - it is unfair, and I never tried to compare Aztec technology (which was pretty advanced for pre-Columbian America though) to that of Ming / Japan. I do not understand how you could see that in my post. I merely said that it is wrong to measure technological advances by the amount of population, which T1 clearly pointed at.




Japan fought China/ Korea in many wars, but I think of the 19-20th century. I am not sure what are you talking about here, other than an attempt to invade in Japan in 13th century when entire fleet was wrecked by typhoon, and some troops landed in Japan which were beaten by Japense.

About Russia - this is not really true. Russia got some of the islands much earlier, and even got access to Korean Sea, which triggered Russian - Japanese War in 1905. This has nothing to do with WWII (other than Kurili islands, which remains an issue until today)

To your first point you are correct and i do apologize for this. Size/ population does not mean tech advantage


Also I was referring to the Sino-Japanese wars (especially the first one ) that was fought over the control of Korea were. That was a massive and one sided win for Japan in the first war in 1895

As for the Russia issue I was in fact referring to the Kurilis islands when I referred Russia attacking when Japan was already weak (but the war you mention in 1905 was a victory for Japan as well go Japan :) (irrelevant point just wanted to mention it) .

(as a bit of side note this is why I viciously attack Russia in my Japan games before they even get a chance colonize Serbia )

Colonize Serbia or Siberia ? :)

About Kurili Islands - this is more complicated topic, and I know there are different opinions on this, but as far as I am aware it was Russians who colonized those islands before Japanese and had to give them to Japan due to exchange in 19th century for Sakhalin, which only proves what I have said with respect to isolationist politics of Japan.

[Saint]

Oh shoot my bad. I voted to change Siberia to Serbia immediately who is with me.

[DerWizard]

Escrito originalmente por Large Leader:

Escrito originalmente por DerWizard:

I agree, Golden Horde is huge for 1444, considering that it was in a decline already and it will be a matter of years until Muscovy fully annexes them.

Exactly. Despite being the remanants of a Khanate, their soldiers can take on mine when their's are entirely infantry, no cavalry. They're mongolians for ♥♥♥♥'s sake!

I think they should have made several minor states rather than big Golden Horde, like in Eastern Anatolia

[rooskie]

What is really frustraiting is that now after westernisation you still have units from a previous technological group. What's the point in westernisation then? Most countries will need to spend huge ammount of points just to westernise, not mentioning all the troubles it brings and for how long. It's been quite a while since I plyed last time and it was a surprise for me, as I didn't follow the changes in game. So I'm playing as Japan and finally westernise, thinking of how I'll destroy Ming and others, but then I discover that I still have those worthless morons. And suddenly comes Great Britain toghether with the Netherlands and beats the ♥♥♥♥ out of me since my units suck a bowl of ♥♥♥♥♥ comparing to theirs, makes me their protectorate. WTF? Seriously? And I can't even go back to the pre-westernisation time since it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ironman mode. Really makes me mad.