Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

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Morgoth Jul 21, 2016 @ 12:46am
Which idiot dev made Turkish culture "Levantine"?
You should fire that inept disinformant.

Turks are "Oghuz" culture group along with Turkmen and Azerbaijani.

I would rather get swine flu than be in a game with Syrian culture.
Last edited by Morgoth; Jul 21, 2016 @ 12:46am
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Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
Salty Platypus Jul 21, 2016 @ 2:54am 
man it is scary how many times this thread pops up
Xalehander Jul 21, 2016 @ 3:48am 
I know this is just a bait and I'm replying to it, but in the same way, Basque is in same culture group as Castilian, Bretons are in the same group as French, Wales is in the same group as English, Finnish is in the same group as Swedish, Karelian is in the same group as Russian, Estonian is in the same group as Latvian, Hungarian is in the same group as Slovak or Romanian. It's for gameplay reasons and nothing else.
Last edited by Xalehander; Jul 21, 2016 @ 3:49am
691neil Jul 21, 2016 @ 4:02am 
Originally posted by Xalehander:
I know this is just a bait and I'm replying to it, but in the same way, Basque is in same culture group as Castilian, Bretons are in the same group as French, Wales is in the same group as English, Finnish is in the same group as Swedish, Karelian is in the same group as Russian, Estonian is in the same group as Latvian, Hungarian is in the same group as Slovak or Romanian. It's for gameplay reasons and nothing else.

Just out of interest what are these gameplay reasons?
Xalehander Jul 21, 2016 @ 4:05am 
Originally posted by 691neil:
Just out of interest what are these gameplay reasons?

Mainly the lowered unrest and more tax etc. By being a cultural union as an Empire, such as Ottomans or Russia, you won't get any cultural penalties. Ottomans seem to have a hard time staying alive as AI so that's why they probably buffed them. Same reason for Russia and Karelian areas.
691neil Jul 21, 2016 @ 4:47am 
Originally posted by Xalehander:
Originally posted by 691neil:
Just out of interest what are these gameplay reasons?

Mainly the lowered unrest and more tax etc. By being a cultural union as an Empire, such as Ottomans or Russia, you won't get any cultural penalties. Ottomans seem to have a hard time staying alive as AI so that's why they probably buffed them. Same reason for Russia and Karelian areas.

IMO that's not gameplay - just a series of buffs and nerfs. They could have achieved the same thing in any number of different ways. In any event thanks for taking the time to reply.
lindavius Jul 21, 2016 @ 5:35am 
Russia and the Ottomans are in fact very interesting historical examples for empire building, that differ strongly from the very western idea of cultural hegemony, with its notion of "nation building" and cultural assimilation.

In fact, the Ottomans are, being Turks, basically just the ruling family of the empire, while "Russia" comes from the Rus in Moscow that fended off the Golden Horde, and later expanded to the Pacific.
While the Ottomans were in fact "assimilated" by just about every culture they conquered, be it Levantine, Greek, etc. ( In game, they can get at least Greek and Western culture when prerequisites are met...) , keeping and expanding their power structure throughout the process, by vassalizing everything: The Ottomans (who were atavist Step Nomads at the beginning) brought (apart from their very successful structure of reigning and Empire building) no actual "culture" whatsover with them . (- Sorry for the hard words...)
They interpreted an own version ( leading to conflicts with the Arabs) of Sunni (e.g. for their own legitimation) as the leading culture, one could say. (Many conflicts in the ME nowadays are thus a result of their rule; especially those in laicist Turkey...)

"Russians" OTOH are basically those who were conquered by the Rus and patronized by Orthodoxy (what went hand in hand; - Russia itself is since Kyrill a "mission") .

Both empires have found different ways to handle massive cultural diversity: Russia with the very Christian idea of "all people are brothers" , and more specifically: Russians. (- The Ukrainians might disagree...) The Ottomans by adopting Sunni, and basically not touching the native cultures they found: All that was really expected was paying taxes, and sending soldiers.
Miles Jul 21, 2016 @ 10:43am 
If this tiny bit of historical inaccuracy makes you this upset I'm surpirsed you're even still playing EU4.

Does anyone really care about the accuracy of ethnic groups inclusion in cultural groups? Does it really matter?
Originally posted by Karkoff:
I I'm surpirsed you're even still playing EU4.

Say that to everyone who comes into the forums please
Mr. Cobb Jul 21, 2016 @ 1:42pm 
The OP is very open about his cultural prejudices.
Morgoth Jul 21, 2016 @ 5:00pm 
It is not a cultural prejudice.

It's righteous fury to outright lying.

In Western Turkic (Oghuz) culture, which includes Turkish Turks, Azeri Turks, Turkmen Turks, the culture is matriarchal. Religion can not subvert the equality or at least the relative freethinking of the woman.

Arabic culture is patriarchal.

I don't want to play a game where I am forced and oppressed into a false form of history, the struggles and pain of my ancestors subjected to "game balance" reasons.

If there is a disadvantage, then give me the disadvantage. I don't care, Ottomans have enough advantages.

I don't want to play my favorite game humiliated.

Take notice devs.
Last edited by Morgoth; Jul 21, 2016 @ 5:00pm
Mr. Cobb Jul 21, 2016 @ 5:40pm 
Originally posted by Admiral Snackbar:
It is not a cultural prejudice.

It's righteous fury to outright lying.

In Western Turkic (Oghuz) culture, which includes Turkish Turks, Azeri Turks, Turkmen Turks, the culture is matriarchal. Religion can not subvert the equality or at least the relative freethinking of the woman.

Arabic culture is patriarchal.

I don't want to play a game where I am forced and oppressed into a false form of history, the struggles and pain of my ancestors subjected to "game balance" reasons.

If there is a disadvantage, then give me the disadvantage. I don't care, Ottomans have enough advantages.

I don't want to play my favorite game humiliated.

Take notice devs.

The game was never meant to be 100% historically accurate. I play the game to have fun and could care less about culture labels.

It may very well be that the devs were not aware of all the cultural nuances in each region. If the culture bothers you that much that it humiliates you then you have deeper problems than this game.
Originally posted by Admiral Snackbar:
It is not a cultural prejudice.

It's righteous fury to outright lying.

In Western Turkic (Oghuz) culture, which includes Turkish Turks, Azeri Turks, Turkmen Turks, the culture is matriarchal. Religion can not subvert the equality or at least the relative freethinking of the woman.

Arabic culture is patriarchal.

If there is a disadvantage, then give me the disadvantage. I don't care, Ottomans have enough advantages.

The OP is factually correct.

Also, how on earth can this be your favroite game? Don't you have other (better) Paradox games in your libarary?
Iain the Hunter Jul 22, 2016 @ 1:08am 
i wish they were more accurate, the cultures
Husky Jul 22, 2016 @ 10:01am 
They put them in levantine because they are in some way that.. Turkey is in the levantine region. face it. You ISIS slut ;) (JUST KIDDING! REALLY, I LOVE TURKEY!)
Safavi Jul 22, 2016 @ 12:47pm 
Originally posted by Admiral Snackbar:
You should fire that inept disinformant.

Turks are "Oghuz" culture group along with Turkmen and Azerbaijani.

I would rather get swine flu than be in a game with Syrian culture.

You do realize that the Turks of Anatolia were persianized right? The ottomans were a Persianite state. (A nation that has linguistic and cultural ties to Persia) same goes for the Turcomens. Azeris are not a Turkic group culturally or ethnically. Speaking a language doesn't change your culture.

So technically OP is wrong and right at the same time.
Last edited by Safavi; Jul 22, 2016 @ 12:47pm
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Date Posted: Jul 21, 2016 @ 12:46am
Posts: 16