How is this for an early Austrian strategy?

[Hairy]

First time I have ever played Austria.

My plan is to no cb on Byzantium and to vassalize them before the Ottomans dow them.

I will need a start where the Ottomans don't rival me so I can get access through them and Hungary.

At the same time I want to no cb and vassalize Granada as well.

I figure Granada is an easy way to take provinces in North Africa as I fight those countries who will ally with the Ottomans.

The -3 stab hit will be a killer but do you guys think it's worth it?


I plan on fighting Venice and then the Pope after that to keep the italan states in the hre and figure the extra ships my vassals can bring might mean I can gain naval superiority to take Venice itself as from what I read that is needed now too.

Would love to hear people's opinions and ideas to further expand this. Thanks

[AllGrainGamer]

I think it's possible, but also think going for both Byzanitum and Granada is stretching yourself pretty thin. Having Granada may also turn Castille against you who is often a helpful ally against France. Alternatively you could try to get on Aragon's good side if you can break up their relation with France.

Personally, unless you are specifically going for a world conquest I would avoid the North African provinces. They're not worth the points for their low development tagged with extra cost. If you're worried about the Ottomans you can either wait until your western tech advantage makes crushing them easy in the late game or you can jump on them when they go for the Mamuluks causing 2 big fronts for them to deal with.

Even if you have both Byzantine and Granda on your side beating Venice on the sea is going to be tough. You may want to focus on invading Serbia and footing your own navy or get some Itallian allies.

[Darksinth]

I think if you take granada and byzantines you'll no longer have enough time to prevent the shadow kingdom... cause most time is spend waiting for the AE to tick down and 46 years is a relatively short time for that

[veryhungryperson]

While ti si an interesting strategy it comes with a high opportunity cost. As said before doing a no CB war basically knocks out preventing the shadow kingdom, which isn't all bad becuase you can get IA from readding the provinces but still worth noting. Additionally you rule out the Bohemian PU, which will pass after a month or two and additionally will most likely have to decline the CTA from Leige when Burgandy attacks them, taking a mssive IA hit and opinion malice.

Of course the wars against Byzamtium and Granada have the distinct chance of dragging you into a war with Ottomans/Castile if you vassalize them as both these counties consider the provinces as vital interest whch will make them pile on if they are weak enough.

While No-CB can be useful to get meaningful advantages I just don't see one that puts you in a better place than the standard opening of Bohemia PU -> Venice War #1 -> Burgandy Succession War -> Papal States War -> Hungry PU -> Venice War #2 puts you in a much stronger position to face the Ottomans and France.

[Laladen]

4 Stability.

The two issues you will have with this which are minor. Granada usually allies either Tunis or Morocco which means you will have to contend with a superior navy. You could get access from Castile before you launch the war but will then be landlocked to pursue Granada's ally. So you can just sit for 4 years or so until they are willing to peace out. Which means that Castile's truce timer with Granada will end and they may freak out and attack Granada which means when you Vassalize Granada you may be in a defensive war with Castile, which could be a good thing. Of course this could happen with Byzantium and the Ottomans.

I would recommend Great Britain or Aragon as an ally here as their navy will be invaluable to you.

If you can pull this off it would set you up for a potentially amazing mid-end game. It could also draw you into never ending wars when you are not ready for a war. But I like it. I would even let the shadow kingdom event fire off in 1490. Just reconquer it again later, core, put back into the HRE, then release.

[Hairy]

Thanks for the posts guys, ive tried a couple of attempts and I think its possible. While still being able to PU Bohemia and take Venice and Papal States. But it will have to be a perfect start.

The first attempt I botched up by sending troops to Byzantium too early and when I no CB'd Granada I had to send my troops back as they were exiled :P oops.

Second attempt the Ottomans Dow on Byzantium while I was sieging down thier provances. And I want Byzantium to keep Constantinople as I feel that will significantly weaken the Ottomans.

People seem confused why I am wanting to Vassalize Granada. The main reason is free African Cores and the possibilty to colonize later on as well if I chose to. Ottomans will ally with some of the North African nations and normally you would just take some money off of them and peace out, but this way I can use Granada to core them and then convert them to Catholic. If I can ally Castile then they can help fight those Nations as well.

Working shortly but when I have the time I will see how I get on again and update you all.

[Hairy]

I have managed to Vassalize Byzantium and Granada. Ottomans went for Albania first meaning I had time to Vazzalize Byzantium in time so they kept Constantinople :)

Not long after that was complete Bohemia went Habsburg, so went straight for them. Took a bit longer than I would of liked as Brandenburg joined on thier side. But managed to get the PU on Bohemia.

Then I went for Venice, giving Brescia back to Milan, released Aquileia, and took Verona and Dalmatien for myself.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=760308083

I have a Royal Marriage with Burgundy hoping for the PU with them although they now have an heir so I guess I must wait for that a bit?

Alliance and Royal Marriage with Castile and they seem happy, +73 relation with them without trying to improve relations.

Next task I am considering is Bosnia and Serbia, but not sure how that will effect my AE which needs to cool down. Hungary, Genoa and Aragon arent happy at all with me :)

I am expecting some form of coalition against me once I take some Papal provinces but hopefully I can manage them.

Edit : Hungary elected me as thier leader, so thats another PU.

[ZeratulR]

The only idea I can completely support is fighting Venice and Pope (and possibly someone else) to keep Italy in the HRE. You should do it in any case.

Vassalising Byzantium is bold but kinda pointless. You'll probably take some provinces in Eastern Italy and they will take some provinces in Western Balkans so DoW on them won't be a problem. So it's just to have a lot of reconquest on them? Probably not worth the terrible stability hit so early in the game.

Vassalising Granada is just kinda "meh". You are doing it just to vassal feed some of Ottomans' allies to them? Why not just vassilise Urbino or Bosnia or something and feed it to them? Coring range is more than enough iirc.

I guess this strategy is a way to create additional challenge. Buth honestly if you want challenge you probably shouldn't play Austria.

PS. I conquered the World as Austria by mid 1750s going grayskin (which is probably a mediocre result). If you want to check, go for wc and let's see if you strategy is better. =)

[Hairy]

Well ive just gotten past 1490 and managed to keep the italian states in the HRE, also had a nice war with France as they had allied the pope, so had to do a seperate war to humilate France frist.

Now that I am turning my eye to the ottomans I will see if the Granada vasslaization has been worth it. The Ottomans will already be a lot weaker without Constantinople, so that will make the fight against them a lot easier on my manpower.

I may go for a WC with this Austria save but to be honest I doubt it. Have never attempted one before as I dont think im a good enough player and would make too many stupid mistakes when not concentrating enough. But we will see :)

[Laladen]

Originally posted by ZeratulR:

The only idea I can completely support is fighting Venice and Pope (and possibly someone else) to keep Italy in the HRE. You should do it in any case.

Vassalising Byzantium is bold but kinda pointless.

Really?? Like 10 cores to reclaim and a great center of trade. With Castile as an ally, he may be able to control the strait crossing which is good for at least 1-2 basically free wars if you can pull off the blockade. Just have to take Epirus (sp?) Since it is actually two strait crossings side by side. Luckily that is a Byzantium core!

This will speed up the formation of the actual HRE but letting one of the peace deals against the Ottomans be significantly larger than normal. Just need to connect the lands via Dalmatia->Ragusa->Bosnia->Serbia. All that is probably good for 1-2 HRE reforms.

[Laladen]

Originally posted by Hairy:

Well ive just gotten past 1490 and managed to keep the italian states in the HRE, also had a nice war with France as they had allied the pope, so had to do a seperate war to humilate France frist.

Now that I am turning my eye to the ottomans I will see if the Granada vasslaization has been worth it. The Ottomans will already be a lot weaker without Constantinople, so that will make the fight against them a lot easier on my manpower.

I may go for a WC with this Austria save but to be honest I doubt it. Have never attempted one before as I dont think im a good enough player and would make too many stupid mistakes when not concentrating enough. But we will see :)

I like the moves a lot! I usually try to do a no-cb in the first year to set me up with more than one direction of expansion, but i've never done two!

Although in my last game I did have to break a Truce to be able to finish Master of India in time before the game ended. Harsh penalties!

[ZeratulR]

Originally posted by Fedaykin:

Originally posted by ZeratulR:

The only idea I can completely support is fighting Venice and Pope (and possibly someone else) to keep Italy in the HRE. You should do it in any case.

Vassalising Byzantium is bold but kinda pointless.

Really?? Like 10 cores to reclaim and a great center of trade.

Absolutely. If you just vassalise Byzantium and annex it in 10 years you'll get 15-20 trade power which is a half of a ducat if you collect (and even less if you transfer to Ragusa you haven't yet taken under control). And if you wait untill all 10 cores are returned to Byzantium via reconquest and annex it, it will probably take 70-80 years to complete by which time you could conquer those lands in a more traditional fashion. At any rate, unless I forgetting something reconquest is good because of AE and unjustified demands. But AE is not a problem when taking from Ottomans (because they are pretty much the only country who gets AE except for Hungary which is in PU with you), and unjustified demands of those provinces are about 80*3=240 diplo. Even if you spend all of these (which is unlikely) amount it is still probably only the half of admin points you have to pay to restore your stability. Just take Dalmatia from Venice in a very first war, let Turks take Hum from Bosnia (or Serbia...) and fight the Ottomans as much as you want.

With Castile as an ally, he may be able to control the strait crossing which is good for at least 1-2 basically free wars if you can pull off the blockade.

If they can defeat the Ottoman fleet and if after that they'll decide to blockade Bosphorous instead of hanging in Aegen Sea. That strategy is great as sea power like Venice or Spaniards, as Austria it's very unreliable. In my wc game I took most of Venice's lands, was allied to Spain and Lithuania (which took most of Crimea and had a seizable fleet) and still Ottomans kicked our afts at sea untill I took almost all of their European possessions. AI allies are idiots.

[Hairy]

Not had the time to play anymore of the game in the last couple of days, so sorry for no updates.

If you can do 2 no CB wars then you may as well go for it. You lose 2 stab for a no CB war but can only go down to -3 stab, so after the 2 wars I was at -3, I then waited and hoped for the chance to DoW on Bohemia that would of given me another -1 stab due to royal marriage. Once I got that I then still only had 3 stab to raise.

So the Granada no CB basicly was free. It also only took 6 infantry as I only had 6 cogs. Landed on them and then recruited 4 mercs and the rest was easy.

With my fleets I doubt I will be able to beat the Ottomans navy even with the help of Castile. The problem is Castiles fleet if they join any wars will likely concentrate on the North Aftican coast against whatever Countries join on the Ottoman side.

I could maybe wait for the Iberian wedding, that will bring Aragon and Naples fleet into play as well which will likely be more than enough but I plan on hitting Ottomans before that.

I will see how I get on.

[ZeratulR]

Originally posted by Hairy:

With my fleets I doubt I will be able to beat the Ottomans navy even with the help of Castile. The problem is Castiles fleet if they join any wars will likely concentrate on the North Aftican coast against whatever Countries join on the Ottoman side.

I could maybe wait for the Iberian wedding, that will bring Aragon and Naples fleet into play as well which will likely be more than enough but I plan on hitting Ottomans before that.

Exactly. Venice can fabricate on Byzantium from day 1 (I'm restarting my Venice game and I'm so about to try it). Theoretically taking Negroponte from Venice in the day 1 war, fabricating on Byzantium and vassalizing it could make this much more attractive strategy, although it would be hard to beat Ottomans to the Constantinopole like that.

[Hairy]

The Venice save I got bored of before doing this one I did exactly that.

If ottoman's dow on byzantium then just annex all provences and release after. If the Ottomans go for Albania you will have time to vassalize them in the peace treaty.

It's pretty easy to do.

[Hairy]

I decided to redo this.

I felt the AE that came with trying to keep the Italian States inside the HRE just wasnt worth it. And essentially crippled me for too long on any sort of expansion. Even a DoW on the Ottomans resulted in a strong Coalition against me.

So I started again and again a no CB on both the Byzantianze and Granadans.

Ive now gotten to 1524 and my save is doing much much better. Partly due to even better luck and party due to far less AE.

I managed the PU on Bohemia and forced a PU with Hungary. Also got the Burgundy inheritance. My ruler just died without an heir and as a result I inherited Bohemia and Hungary.

Ottomans have lost the Balklans to myself and Byzantium and I have started moving in on Turkey. Granada is now making in roads on North Africa but this had been delayed due to rebels rising up.

I now have over 100k manpower with a force limit in the 90's although currently I have 0 manpower after the last war. Not bad for 1524 :)

France while still whole is weak, I have humilated them 3 times now and plan to start taking cores. Eventually I plan on Vassalizing them and using them to colonize for me. Also considering a NO CB on Desmond to start my push into the British Isles where eventually the plan will be the same as France and have England as a Vassal colonizing.

Here is a Screenshot.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=762620877