How subjugaion CB fails, can i declare war second time ?

[Raptor00 - FreePALESTİNE]

I declared war as subjugation casus belli. But i see that warscore for vassalization is 109% . I thought that occupying capital was enough for that but even i occupy whole country this is not enough too. And i think it is impossible to decrease this warcore while at war if for example waiting for years by occupying provinces. So if i end war by getting money only do i loose subjugation casus belli or can i declare another war by ubjugation in 10 years.

[fingerneun]

A subjugation cb from a mission should be there for 10 years. When the country has too much warscore to vasallage them, you would have to reduce their development in the first war(eg take some provinces). Since Trucetimes are calculated in that way (source.https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Warfare#Truce)
(peace duration in years) = 5 +0.1/(percentage of war score the peace deal is worth)
you will have problems to start a second war in the 10 years of the cb without trucebreaking.

[Psychotic Fury]

If you can, claim some of their land it may reduce it more (though u will gain more ae taking it yourself)

[Raptor00 - FreePALESTİNE]

ok I see the truce problem, so have to calculate it not more than 10 years. I started to fabricate claim.

Now while i am in war , another country declared war and occupied some of its lands, maybe it takes lands and decrease the warscore now.

But also an interesting thing happened while besieging lands. The warscore of vassalisation was 119% at first and one year later it became %107 while me and another country was occupying lands, i get happy for that it is decreasing by an unknown cause but a few months later it increased to %119 again :)

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Originally posted by Raptor00:

[...]

But also an interesting thing happened while besieging lands. The warscore of vassalisation was 119% at first and one year later it became %107 while me and another country was occupying lands, i get happy for that it is decreasing by an unknown cause but a few months later it increased to %119 again :)

A reason for that might be that a nation with Province War Score Cost Reduction occupied some provinces and later lost them again.

[Bloodhun23]

I think you are selecting the wrong peace terms. Don't vassalize, use the "Union with (Your country)" option. I have subjugated Mega Russia before in one war.

[KingCobra]

Originally posted by Raptor00:

ok I see the truce problem, so have to calculate it not more than 10 years. I started to fabricate claim.

Now while i am in war , another country declared war and occupied some of its lands, maybe it takes lands and decrease the warscore now.

But also an interesting thing happened while besieging lands. The warscore of vassalisation was 119% at first and one year later it became %107 while me and another country was occupying lands, i get happy for that it is decreasing by an unknown cause but a few months later it increased to %119 again :)

could be local autonomy. -0.33% per 1% of local autonomy

[Raptor00 - FreePALESTİNE]

Originally posted by Bloodhun23:

I think you are selecting the wrong peace terms. Don't vassalize, use the "Union with (Your country)" option. I have subjugated Mega Russia before in one war.

I am trying to vassal criema with ottoman but ottoman doesnt have personal union property like christian countries.

[Raptor00 - FreePALESTİNE]

local autonomy or Province War Score Cost can be good explanations.

I waited Genoa and it got some lands from crimea but again warscore needs %107 now. So now i wont vassal and instead get good astrakan lands or take one land and try another war with sublugation again in 10 years. I am playing in ironman mode very hard so didnt want to make a bad choice so waited for the answers :) . my fault was not looking warscore before war :)

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Originally posted by Bloodhun23:

I think you are selecting the wrong peace terms. Don't vassalize, use the "Union with (Your country)" option. I have subjugated Mega Russia before in one war.

"Union with XY" is only possible in PU wars (Restoration of Union CB, Claim Throne CB etc).
In such a war the Union is always possible (fixed cost of (I think) 80% war score).

[bri]

Originally posted by Raptor00:

local autonomy or Province War Score Cost can be good explanations.

I waited Genoa and it got some lands from crimea but again warscore needs %107 now. So now i wont vassal and instead get good astrakan lands or take one land and try another war with sublugation again in 10 years. I am playing in ironman mode very hard so didnt want to make a bad choice so waited for the answers :) . my fault was not looking warscore before war :)

That's odd unless Crimea really expanded. If you used the subjugation CB then making them a vassal only costs 50% of the normal war score so for it to be 119% they would have to be 238% (they start at 103%). In your situation, assuming they really are that big, you'll have to truce break as you'll need to take 40 odd% war score from them to knock them down small enough. You'll probably want to go a bit past as well since the ai loves to develop provinces so could easily boost it back up a few points in the interim.

[Raptor00 - FreePALESTİNE]

Originally posted by bri:

Originally posted by Raptor00:

local autonomy or Province War Score Cost can be good explanations.

I waited Genoa and it got some lands from crimea but again warscore needs %107 now. So now i wont vassal and instead get good astrakan lands or take one land and try another war with sublugation again in 10 years. I am playing in ironman mode very hard so didnt want to make a bad choice so waited for the answers :) . my fault was not looking warscore before war :)

That's odd unless Crimea really expanded. If you used the subjugation CB then making them a vassal only costs 50% of the normal war score so for it to be 119% they would have to be 238% (they start at 103%). In your situation, assuming they really are that big, you'll have to truce break as you'll need to take 40 odd% war score from them to knock them down small enough. You'll probably want to go a bit past as well since the ai loves to develop provinces so could easily boost it back up a few points in the interim.

Yes , in the beginnig when i try to conquer aqqoyunlu, i saw that goldenhorde was ally of them. So decided to kick and weaken goldenhorde in order to crimea benefit this. But crimea benefit more than i expected :D Crime took lands all of goldenhorde and then soem from kazan too , so transfomerd to a beast and got 238% warscore :)

Ok, breaking truce may need but this have a bad penalty. Is it necessary to take this march or not, i dont know. If it makes 15k 20k soldiers then can be worth i think.

Here is a screenshoot
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1746838449

[bri]

You're going to want the Crimea trade node eventually, whether taking it by conquest one bit at a time is less trouble than the AE spike and coalitions you'll likely get for breaking truce and subjugating them is something you'll need to decide.

[reprodukTOOOOOOOOOOOR]

Originally posted by Raptor00:

Originally posted by Bloodhun23:

I think you are selecting the wrong peace terms. Don't vassalize, use the "Union with (Your country)" option. I have subjugated Mega Russia before in one war.

I am trying to vassal criema with ottoman but ottoman doesnt have personal union property like christian countries.

You can convert to orthodox, if you want, its quite easy

[bri]

Originally posted by Martin Papp:

Originally posted by Raptor00:

I am trying to vassal criema with ottoman but ottoman doesnt have personal union property like christian countries.

You can convert to orthodox, if you want, its quite easy

Wouldn't help as he doesn't have "restoration of union" he has "subjugation" which is entirely different.

[Raptor00 - FreePALESTİNE]

Breaking truce was -5 stability so after long thinking i decided not to vassal but take the good lands to make state :) i hope moscowy dont get bigger this time .