How to deal with Spain when you need to fight her in mid/late game (as Byz eg)

[AOE4 Pls Buff England]

New player, only played 2 games, one UK, one Byzantium which is currently playing for 150h. I wanna restore Rome, but Spain is the biggest issume. Her NI seems so OP to me in terms of fighting, with high morale and discipline. Every time I need to call a lot of allies and gather far larger armies than Spain to win the battles. Also with colonies she has: high land force limit, great econ by Sevilla from Caribbean and Ivory Coast. Should I fight her very early (earlier than 1600s eg) as most nations? Or how do I deal with her as, for example, Byz going for Rome?

[Medicles]

Castile already starts the game with their 15% morale of armies, so it really doesnt matter when you attack them, they will usually have a substantial advantage over you in regard to army quality.

I suggest allying France and beating Spain around 1500-1600.

[AOE4 Pls Buff England]

Originally posted by Medicles:

Castile already starts the game with their 15% morale of armies, so it really doesnt matter when you attack them, they will usually have a substantial advantage over you in regard to army quality.

I suggest allying France and beating Spain around 1500-1600.

Thanks! Unfortunately in my current byz game France is defeated by the union of UK, Spain and Portugal and I allied Austria earlier to defend Poland (Yes Poland is another issue to me, also OP to me) so I cant ally Fr and have to face them by myself. It's a luck that UK and Spain broke their alliance for some reason so I can take London and her colonies without messing with Spain.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by +30:

Originally posted by Medicles:

Castile already starts the game with their 15% morale of armies, so it really doesnt matter when you attack them, they will usually have a substantial advantage over you in regard to army quality.

I suggest allying France and beating Spain around 1500-1600.

Thanks! Unfortunately in my current byz game France is defeated by the union of UK, Spain and Portugal and I allied Austria earlier to defend Poland (Yes Poland is another issue to me, also OP to me) so I cant ally Fr and have to face them by myself. It's a luck that UK and Spain broke their alliance for some reason so I can take London and her colonies without messing with Spain.

If Britain has formed and helped take down France, are they powerful and on the continent? Use them to help you with Spain instead.

[Medicles]

Originally posted by +30:

Thanks! Unfortunately in my current byz game France is defeated by the union of UK, Spain and Portugal and I allied Austria earlier to defend Poland (Yes Poland is another issue to me, also OP to me) so I cant ally Fr and have to face them by myself. It's a luck that UK and Spain broke their alliance for some reason so I can take London and her colonies without messing with Spain.

Yeah, Poland is far worse as enemy, especially as Commonwealth. Their whole national ideas are full of significant land army buffs. But luckily you dont need much from them for forming Rome, so Spain should be the focus, but i have too little informations about the campaign in general to make an educated guess.

Russia should be able to help you against Poland, in regard to Spain i guess you have to be Britains friend first, like Malvastor said.

Dont get discouraged to start a new campaign with a specific plan in mind though. Its already quite surprising that you can survive as Byzantium with just 150h in, which either tells me you have quite the skill or that Byz became so easy that even new players can confidently play them. Either way, you already did it once, so you can do it a second time and now even more efficient, since you can apply everything you learned during your current campaign.

[AOE4 Pls Buff England]

Originally posted by Medicles:

Originally posted by +30:

Thanks! Unfortunately in my current byz game France is defeated by the union of UK, Spain and Portugal and I allied Austria earlier to defend Poland (Yes Poland is another issue to me, also OP to me) so I cant ally Fr and have to face them by myself. It's a luck that UK and Spain broke their alliance for some reason so I can take London and her colonies without messing with Spain.

Yeah, Poland is far worse as enemy, especially as Commonwealth. Their whole national ideas are full of significant land army buffs. But luckily you dont need much from them for forming Rome, so Spain should be the focus, but i have too little informations about the campaign in general to make an educated guess.

Russia should be able to help you against Poland, in regard to Spain i guess you have to be Britains friend first, like Malvastor said.

Dont get discouraged to start a new campaign with a specific plan in mind though. Its already quite surprising that you can survive as Byzantium with just 150h in, which either tells me you have quite the skill or that Byz became so easy that even new players can confidently play them. Either way, you already did it once, so you can do it a second time and now even more efficient, since you can apply everything you learned during your current campaign.

Glad to hear that.

Honestly I played UK in pirated version for around 100h or so and directly gave a try to Byz after buying the game (for the achievement at first). The current campaign is the 2nd Byz game. The first Byz camp end in 1523 or so, since I allied Poland but failed to ally other great powers until then, but Poland ended the alliance and mark all my Bulgarian land red (yeah his mission I think) and I didnt manage to get other allies. Most important reason should be perhaps wrong expand direction. Didnt expand east fast but fight a lot in Europe in that compaign.

Anyway I reached 1670s by now and every term is the highest, 500 income, 400k force limit, 3755 devlp etc. Just feel terrible fighting Spain and Poland due to their higgggh army quality, like I lost a battle with 100k to 48k :)

[MasterYi]

If you don’t want to fight Spain head on, you can try gaining Naval Dominance with a Galley Navy.

Island hop Sicily, Sardinia, Malta and the Balearics, Blockade their Mediterranean coastline but do not go past the Gulf of Almeria Sea Tile because Galleys will lose their Inland Sea Combat Ability in Open Seas (Straits of Gibraltar and beyond).

Wait for ticking warscore, take max money and war reps (some island provinces too if u want), repeat until they go bankrupt.

You can also fight asymmetrically by landing in Spanish North Africa, Naval/Artillery barrage and rush Cueta (if Portugal is helping Spain), block the straits if you have Heavy Ships, sometimes Galleys, Trade Ships and Transport Ships also work if you have enough numbers, the AI will be scared to engage even if their quality is better.

[Medicles]

Originally posted by +30:

Glad to hear that.

Honestly I played UK in pirated version for around 100h or so and directly gave a try to Byz after buying the game (for the achievement at first). The current campaign is the 2nd Byz game. The first Byz camp end in 1523 or so, since I allied Poland but failed to ally other great powers until then, but Poland ended the alliance and mark all my Bulgarian land red (yeah his mission I think) and I didnt manage to get other allies. Most important reason should be perhaps wrong expand direction. Didnt expand east fast but fight a lot in Europe in that compaign.

Anyway I reached 1670s by now and every term is the highest, 500 income, 400k force limit, 3755 devlp etc. Just feel terrible fighting Spain and Poland due to their higgggh army quality, like I lost a battle with 100k to 48k :)

3755 dev? That should be like double of what number two has, which is Spain i assume. At this point the quality shouldnt matter anymore and you just zerg siege them down. No need to fight their armies to get a warscore for a significant blow.

I guess Spain has Iberia, maybe some North Africa, part of France and part of Italy under direct control + Middle and some South America as colonies. Their colonial period is most likely over, but i believe they still move around their armies on sea often enough to get a surprise attack in. After 1600 is also the time when morale of armies modifier becomes weaker than Disciplin, so Spain doesnt have much of an advantage anymore, since both of you have 5% Disciplin in your national ideas. I can suggest Economic + Quality for an extra 10% Disciplin to eventually overcome the Spaniards.

[HoridMatec]

Originally posted by +30:

New player, only played 2 games, one UK, one Byzantium which is currently playing for 150h. I wanna restore Rome, but Spain is the biggest issume. Her NI seems so OP to me in terms of fighting, with high morale and discipline. Every time I need to call a lot of allies and gather far larger armies than Spain to win the battles. Also with colonies she has: high land force limit, great econ by Sevilla from Caribbean and Ivory Coast. Should I fight her very early (earlier than 1600s eg) as most nations? Or how do I deal with her as, for example, Byz going for Rome?

I usually fight castille/spain early to bankrupt them. once they are bankrupt they rarely come back, if they have aragon annexed you can take one land and release aragon and take back all the cores, or attack aragon directly and annex them in a few wars and release.

[AOE4 Pls Buff England]

Originally posted by Medicles:

Originally posted by +30:

Glad to hear that.

Honestly I played UK in pirated version for around 100h or so and directly gave a try to Byz after buying the game (for the achievement at first). The current campaign is the 2nd Byz game. The first Byz camp end in 1523 or so, since I allied Poland but failed to ally other great powers until then, but Poland ended the alliance and mark all my Bulgarian land red (yeah his mission I think) and I didnt manage to get other allies. Most important reason should be perhaps wrong expand direction. Didnt expand east fast but fight a lot in Europe in that compaign.

Anyway I reached 1670s by now and every term is the highest, 500 income, 400k force limit, 3755 devlp etc. Just feel terrible fighting Spain and Poland due to their higgggh army quality, like I lost a battle with 100k to 48k :)

3755 dev? That should be like double of what number two has, which is Spain i assume. At this point the quality shouldnt matter anymore and you just zerg siege them down. No need to fight their armies to get a warscore for a significant blow.

I guess Spain has Iberia, maybe some North Africa, part of France and part of Italy under direct control + Middle and some South America as colonies. Their colonial period is most likely over, but i believe they still move around their armies on sea often enough to get a surprise attack in. After 1600 is also the time when morale of armies modifier becomes weaker than Disciplin, so Spain doesnt have much of an advantage anymore, since both of you have 5% Disciplin in your national ideas. I can suggest Economic + Quality for an extra 10% Disciplin to eventually overcome the Spaniards.

2993 for myself and 826 for my annexes. Spain got 1377 herself and 833 for annexes. But anyway, she has Iberia without Portugal (but allied), none France but whole Napule, Sicily and other islands. I took Malta from the last war. And also she has whole Canada, almost whole South America, a little at South Africa. Mainly Ivory Coast. I'm holding Ceuta and Gibraltar so I can keep their army inside Iberia. It's winnable but just so annoying. So many forts and superman army. I spend 4 years to kick out her allies from the war and there are around 10 forts in Iberia waiting for me :)

[Keijo]

How did you beat the ottomans, like isnt byz game all about surviving the big green blob, not about struggling with spain.

[cråck]

Originally posted by +30:

Anyway I reached 1670s by now and every term is the highest, 500 income, 400k force limit, 3755 devlp etc. Just feel terrible fighting Spain and Poland due to their higgggh army quality, like I lost a battle with 100k to 48k :)

else you dont fight battles in witch case you create a doom stack that scares the ai from attacking you

else you fight in witch case you create a stack of the combat widh and full backrow of cannons + multpile reiforcement stacks made of infantry, send each reinforcement stack after few days of a battle to backup the morale loose
discipile advisor + discipline icon + the defender of the faith should be enough to at least match polish or castilan army quality

use mill point to breach the walls and assault using mercs in the iberian forts after 4 years of war ( as you said ) their war enthusiasim will be very low, considering you needed 4 years for the allies i do assume you did broke their alliances with spain

with the imperialism cb rushing the capital asap is the best way to quickly gain warscore over your opponents, especially big blobs like late game spain / russia / ottomans
so yes the 2 ways to deal with them are else you kill them early or kill them with imperialism and lot of absolutism / province warscore reductions aka. monument in malta + diplo ideas + age of reformation bonus and later admin efficiency

glad to see a newbe actually dont ask for help starting as byz but with an already well deved byz and late game
could be nice to have some screenshoots of your campagn, for more detailled help, gl ;)

[Medicles]

Originally posted by +30:

2993 for myself and 826 for my annexes. Spain got 1377 herself and 833 for annexes. But anyway, she has Iberia without Portugal (but allied), none France but whole Napule, Sicily and other islands. I took Malta from the last war. And also she has whole Canada, almost whole South America, a little at South Africa. Mainly Ivory Coast. I'm holding Ceuta and Gibraltar so I can keep their army inside Iberia. It's winnable but just so annoying. So many forts and superman army. I spend 4 years to kick out her allies from the war and there are around 10 forts in Iberia waiting for me :)

Looks like i gave Spain a little too much credit there. Sounds rather basic, i am surprised you havent dealt with them yet. I suggest Offensive if you wanna go faster with sieging.

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by Keijo:

How did you beat the ottomans, like isnt byz game all about surviving the big green blob, not about struggling with spain.

once the first war is over Ottomans generally become way easier to deal with
hell even the first war can be ez as ♥♥♥♥
in my Byz game Ottomans were always easy to fight since they were either
1) trapped in Anatolia
2) Focusing on my Mamluk ally while i just sat and sieged down Anatolia and beat up their allies
3) Steamroll cause theyve been reduced to the point where Qara is attacking them
Just use Budgetmonk's strat (minus the peace deal, do what SocialStreamers did for the peace deal, also just barrage Gallipoli then assault the fort so theres zero risk of the Otto troops attacking your stacks on Gallipoli)

[Njorl]

I've found that Spain over commits its armies to the Americas during wars against the indigenous nations. You can get at them fast and take their capital before they bring their armies back. You won't get a nice 100% war score this way, but you can inflict some harm on them.

Use the "boarding" naval doctrine, even if your strength is mostly in galleys. Spain tends to have their navy divided up and spread around. Even if they have a stronger navy, you are likely to have local superiority at the beginning of a war. "Boarding" can get you a lot of their ships before they concentrate their naval forces.

Make sure you take at least one Aragon core after you win your first war against them. Then, right before your second war against Spain, release Aragon as a vassal and declare a war of reconquest. You can take more of their territory that way. If they've integrated Naples, you can use this tactic to acquire the Naples cores as well.

[MasterYi]

Originally posted by Njorl:

I've found that Spain over commits its armies to the Americas during wars against the indigenous nations. You can get at them fast and take their capital before they bring their armies back. You won't get a nice 100% war score this way, but you can inflict some harm on them.

If you occupy their all their non overseas provinces after 5 years, you can still get a 100% peace deal. Saves a lot of island hopping, micromanaging speed 3 headaches.