Colony Spam and mid/late game deadlock

[Camkitsune]

So, I've got about 250 hours logged now, and have yet to finish a full campaign.

There are two main reasons for this - you can probably guess what those are from the title.

1) Spain (and to a lesser extent Portugal) rolls up the new world with frustrating speed. I'm assuming it's a combination of their national ideas and taking both the Expansion and Exploration idea paths early. They inevitably end up with so much of the new world that dealing with them becomes effectively impossible. The obvious solution to this - support the colonies' independence - runs into another problem.

2) All of the Great Powers in Europe form alliances with one-another. This creates a game state where absolutely nothing happens for long stretches of time. If you try to help Spanish/British colonies gain independence, they'll never actually declare it, because presumably the threat of Austria half a world away makes the AI think it's futile.

I've been playing as Ireland - Cork, more accurately - and the early game is substantially more fun, because maneuvering around the chaotic infighting to form Ireland is fun.
I've gotten to a stable position a fair few times - Scotland is useless, an alliance with England will buy you space but they tend to turn on you - but after that the game inevitably devolves into either desperately trying to get a self-sustaining colony going while Spain takes over half the new world, or struggling to bring down England when they can and will erase your entire navy at a moment's notice.

Is there a reason the AI focuses on the player instead of, say, Spain and their massive colonial empire, or the Ottomans basically being at the top of the score list as soon as Ming collapses? It feels like the only way to actually break the deadlock is to do counter-intuitive and potentially dangerous things like starting multiple wars at once to pry alliances apart - I tried that and it ended up costing me the game, because it turns out defenders in trade disputes can annex your colonies.

[Marquoz]

The AI does not focus on the player at all. It focus on objectives that it can accomplish. You, as a weak Irish nation, are one of those objectives.

And when you say the "obvious solution" is to support colonial independence, you're mistaken. The actual obvious solution is to get vastly stronger than Spain (or any other nation) so that you can crush them.

Your problems arise from playing one of the weakest starts in the game. Such starts are fun and interesting challenges for experienced players, who can literally conquer the world with any nation. But you're not experienced yet. Instead of playing Ireland over and over again, learn about the colonial game by playing Spain or France or Portugal. Learn about the HRE by playing Austria. Learn how to blob effectively by playing the Ottomans. Learn about different religions by playing nations like Muscowy and Vijayanagar.

Then you'll be ready to take on the world with OPMs.

[bri]

Originally posted by Camkitsune:

Is there a reason the AI focuses on the player instead of, say, Spain and their massive colonial empire, or the Ottomans basically being at the top of the score list as soon as Ming collapses?

It doesn't...

[John]

It's a shame how colonial independences almost never happen in this game. I supported New Spain independence for 50 years and they never even declared independence, I was stronger than Spain and had a very strong colony in Newfoundland yet they did nothing.
Colonists are extremely broken in the late game, Portugal often gets over 500+ force limit without even expanding, thanks to their colonies. And then there's Spain who racks up a force limit of over 1000 without even taking quantity because they own almost all of the colonial regions

[Camkitsune]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

The AI does not focus on the player at all. It focus on objectives that it can accomplish. You, as a weak Irish nation, are one of those objectives.

Oh, yea, I get that. That's what makes the early-game fun - the AI is actively working against you and you actually have to work to protect yourself.

And when you say the "obvious solution" is to support colonial independence, you're mistaken. The actual obvious solution is to get vastly stronger than Spain (or any other nation) so that you can crush them.

In other words, the obvious solution is to 'just win the game'.

I can consolidate my power over Ireland, traipse around the France-Scotland alliance, and secure enough of a power base to go toe-to-toe with England. Things tend to break down after that, because by then England usually still has its alliance with Portugal, and the game falls into deadlock.

Your problems arise from playing one of the weakest starts in the game. Such starts are fun and interesting challenges for experienced players, who can literally conquer the world with any nation.

I've gotten to the point where I can make it work up until the point where the game hits the alliance deadlock.

I can form Ireland and turn it into a Great Power - I don't need to conquer the entire world, I just need to get past the AI deadlocking the game with alliance networks.

So I'm asking about that, and your answer appears to be 'just be so good at the game that it isn't an issue'. This isn't helpful.

But you're not experienced yet. Instead of playing Ireland over and over again, learn about the colonial game by playing Spain or France or Portugal. Learn about the HRE by playing Austria. Learn how to blob effectively by playing the Ottomans. Learn about different religions by playing nations like Muscowy and Vijayanagar.

Then you'll be ready to take on the world with OPMs.

This is more helpful, but still doesn't actually tell me anything worthwhile.

I can take that OPM as far as the end-game and do very well - I still sometimes make stupid mistakes and learn things I didn't realize.
I don't want to conquer the world.
What I want is to know how to break up the alliance blocs that cause the game to deadlock.
If I could just dump a large enough army on the problem to make it go away, then the game wouldn't be worth playing anymore.

Originally posted by bri:

[

It doesn't...

Fair - I guess it feels that way mainly because, once the deadlock hits, nothing happens unless you act first.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Camkitsune:

So I'm asking about that, and your answer appears to be 'just be so good at the game that it isn't an issue'. This isn't helpful.

I can't teach you how be good at the game in a few paragraphs. I suggested playing other nations that will help you learn some of the things you currently don't know.

But you need more than the things I listed in that post. You need to learn what idea groups are good and why. You need to learn how to handle AE and GC. You need to learn how to prevent coalitions and how to deal with them if you don't or can't. You need to learn TC and colonial nation mechanics. You need to learn how to route the riches of the world into your coffers via trade. You need to learn to truce juggle. You need to learn many things that playing Ireland repeatedly won't teach you efficiently.

So play other nations, learn, and come to the forums to ask specific questions. Those specific questions will get you specific answers that will "actually tell you anything worthwhile."

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Camkitsune:

What I want is to know how to break up the alliance blocs that cause the game to deadlock.

If you're weak, it's sometimes the case that nothing you can do will break those blocks. That's why "get strong" is always good advice. But you can try attacking whatever minor powers are allied to a great power that's giving you trouble instead of attacking the great power directly (which will drag in all of its strong allies as well). If you then beat that great power, you can force it to break its alliance(s) with other nations in the peace treaty.

But again, you and your alliance web have to be strong enough to beat the great power and its minor allies to make this work. If you aren't, get stronger by doing other things. Pick on weakness, not strength, until you're strong enough to do anything you want.

[Camkitsune]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

I can't teach you how be good at the game in a few paragraphs. I suggested playing other nations that will help you learn some of the things you currently don't know.

With all due respect, you don't know what I don't know, with the exception of the things I've actually acknowledged I don't know.

You need to learn what idea groups are good and why.

I go for Innovation first because the cost reductions on the tech tree free up more MP for development - because of the space restrictions I need to play tall, and every MP counts, especially early on. The cost reductions on Advisors once the set is complete make hiring better advisors early substantially easier, which in turn helps with the MP supply.
Exploration is the second pick because I need to start colonizing ASAP if I'm going to get in that particular element of the game at all - having a shot at the Colonial institution is also a major factor since if Portugal gets it.
Third pick is usually Quality, for reasons similar to Innovation - early on I need as much bang-for-ducal as possible. Sometimes I opt for Navy instead, but I'm less fond of this because England's navy is always a nightmare to deal with.
Fourth pick is more situational - my current preference is Economics because of the further cost reductions.

Expansion has felt a bit like a trap, but having seen how out-of-hand Spain tends to get the short-term benefits do in fact look like they're worth more than the opportunity cost of ideas that end up dead once there's nowhere left to colonize.

I know Innovation was weak prior to Sweden, but under the circumstances it worked, and the slight buff has helped it a lot.

If you're weak, it's sometimes the case that nothing you can do will break those blocks. That's why "get strong" is always good advice.

Trust me, I'm not trying to fight Britain in year 1444 - if I know I'm too weak to pick a fight with the country in an alliance I want to attack, even with my own stronger-on-paper alliance attacking is a good way to die. I've seen what happens when I secure an alliance with England and then double-team Scotland- they will sit in Iverness while France absolutely savages them.

In terms of raw numbers I usually aim for a relatively even match - a minor disadvantage can be mitigated with either mercenaries or the AI frequently lacking tactical sense. I've won wars with England early-game because they had substantially more soldiers than I did, but instead of routing me they tried to carpet-siege and it blew up in their faces.
I have a hard time accounting for just how insane England's navy tends to be - sometimes they fold like paper, sometimes they wipe out my entire navy - but it's less of a factor since I don't need control of the sea to get boots on the ground.

Hell, fighting Scotland while they're allied to France has become fairly easy to gauge - wait until France is busy (and/or ally with Burgundy and/or Denmark/Sweden), make sure you have enough navy to keep them on their side of the channel, and go to town on the poor Scots.

It's specifically an issue of the alliance blocs where it's, say, France, Spain and Venice. Peeling onions like that one are the ones I'm having difficulty with.

You need to learn how to handle AE and GC.

Playing in Ireland has taught me plenty about AE management. You can't play too aggressive early or the other clans jump you - I had this happen once in a very early attempt, and from there it was a steady process of learning how aggressive I could afford to be.

However, once you pass a certain threshold, the clans stop mattering and it becomes more about keeping an eye on England and Scotland - once the number of enemy clans is down to 3-4 you can afford to stop caring so much if they get mad, and you only have to worry about pissing the two big boys off enough that they decide to intervene.
I'm not sure what GC stands for - I'll admit, I've had to look up some of the jargon, but that one isn't on the Wiki.

[/quote]You need to learn how to prevent coalitions and how to deal with them if you don't or can't.[quote[

As mentioned, I haven't had a problem with Coalitions, so most of my understanding here is in terms of hypotehticals - the best way here really does seem to be 'don't go full Hisler'.
Since AE propagation is localized,

You need to learn TC and colonial nation mechanics.

Trade Companies (took me a second to work out) I'm still working on, but their primary use-case seems to be in areas where MP investment is impractical, and/or self-sustaining colonies aren't going to happen.
Still getting the hang of the latter, but I'm not totally ignorant.
The most important colonies appear to be the ones that provide access inland.
Panama is strategically valuable because it can get you early access to the pacific. Keeping good relations with your colonies helps offset their levels of 1776.
Colonial wars are something I'll admit to being a bit gun-shy about, but given how the last game went with Spain painting everything yellow it's clear that I wasn't proactive enough.

[qipte]You need to learn how to route the riches of the world into your coffers via trade.[/quote]
What are the numbers I should be going for? I was up to 120+ gold/month post-expenses by the time the Age of Revolutions started, is that acceptable, or are those rookie numbers?

I'll admit that I still find the trade game a bit confusing, and I'm probably exploiting it sub-optimally, but money has only ever felt like 'a problem' in the early-game when I have nothing to work with.


[quote[]You need to learn to truce juggle.[/quote]
I had to look this one up - this hasn't been relevant to the situation I've been in, probably because I haven't been proactive enough with Colonialist wars.

You need to learn many things that playing Ireland repeatedly won't teach you efficiently.

I've been playing for well over 200 hours. There are tons of things I don't know - for instance, I have no idea how the Mayan religion works or how to forestall Doomsday.

Of the things you've told me I need to know, the only ones I haven't had at least some grasp of are the ones relating to playing aggressively enough to conquer the world.

So play other nations, learn, and come to the forums to ask specific questions. Those specific questions will get you specific answers that will "actually tell you anything worthwhile."

"How do I break an alliance deadlock" isn't especially specific, but it isn't exactly vague, either.
"How do I deal with Spain spamming colonies" is, in fact, specific.

But you can try attacking whatever minor powers are allied to a great power that's giving you trouble instead of attacking the great power directly (which will drag in all of its strong allies as well). If you then beat that great power, you can force it to break its alliance(s) with other nations in the peace treaty.

This is the kind of answer I was looking for - thank you.
The only other suggestion I've been able to find involved starting simultaneous wars to 'pull away' mutual allies from intervening.

[Carefreegold3373]

For the ideas suggested ones in forrum are adm dip and inf as the first 3 unless u r colonizing that is.

[Marquoz]

Camkitsune, I want to preface this by saying that if you are only interested in playing Irish minors, great. You do you! It’s a game, and games are supposed to be fun. If that’s the only thing you enjoy, so be it. But you started this thread because you ran into a situation you couldn’t fix, an alliance logjam. That’s a problem skilled players have no trouble circumventing, so I’m trying to help you get that skill. Also, understand that while I could analyze and critique pretty much everything you wrote, I don’t have the time to do so. I’m going to focus on just a couple illustrative points about AE and idea groups that I hope will emphasize my take home message—that Ireland isn’t where you should learn the game.

Anyway, there’s something about playing in Ireland that’s not obvious to a new player. Ireland is weird. It’s off in a little corner of Europe that almost no one cares about from an AE perspective. That’s one reason it’s a terrible starting location for new players (the other being its weakness). The fact that no one cares about Ireland has consequences. When you write that...

Playing in Ireland has taught me plenty about AE management

...you couldn’t be more wrong. Playing in Italy, or central Europe, or as France, or as most other nations would really teach you this lesson. Managing AE is why you take two of the three best idea groups in the game. But because you’re learning the wrong lessons from playing a weird nation, you didn’t mention any of those groups in your list.

The three strongest idea groups are Administrative, Diplomatic, and Influence. Diplomatic gives you more Diplomats, a bonus to improving relations, higher diplo rep, and reduces warscore cost. In the single player game, it’s either the best or second best idea group. You use its extra, stronger diplomats to keep relations with potential coalition members high enough that they don't combine to attack you, and you expand faster because of the warscore cost reduction.

The other top group is Administrative. Its 25% reduction to coring costs is the single most powerful idea in the entire game. In addition, completing the group gives you a great 25% boost to governing capacity. You probably don’t know how important that is because you’re not expanding much and not running into GC limits. Finally, in combination with Influence (the next group I’ll discuss), it massive reduces the cost of annexing vassals.

The third of the Big Three idea groups is Influence. Influence makes vassal annexation cost 45% less when you complete both it and Admin and enact the policy that enables. Experienced players know that vassals are critical for managing AE and efficient expansion. Forcing vassalization on a defeated enemy generates less AE than outright conquest and is often quite useful. Even more useful is conquering one province of a nation that doesn’t currently exist and then releasing that one provinces as a vassal. Your vassal will then get the “reconquest” casus belli on all of its cores, which generates less AE than any other CB. There are dozens of wonderful potential vassals you can create this way, like Gascony, Syria, and Kazakh. Even in the British Isles, a few exist. Gaeldom and Northumberland can be helpful as Ireland.

Anyway, Admin, Diplo, and Influence are so good and so powerful that they’re often referred to as the Big Three. No group is useless, but those three outperform all others in single player and are frequently taken first. Other good idea groups are either Religious or Humanism (generally one or the other, not both) and Trade. If you’re an early colonizer like Portugal, Spain, Japan, New World and African nations, Indonesian nations, and so on, Exploration and Expansion come before the Big Three. You wrote that

Expansion has felt a bit like a trap

...but again, that’s because you don’t know the game. Expansion is one of the top six or so groups, and I eventually take it as every nation. Its final power, –10% minimum autonomy in territories, is good enough all by itself to justify taking it. Once you know how to expand well and use TCs effectively, it's massively powerful. But that’s just the start. You get twice as many colonists as Exploration! You get a merchant! You get trade power and a diplo relation slot! It’s truly amazing.

As you can see, I’ve already written a very long post just picking apart one line of yours. Rather than go on, I’m going to stop here and reiterate my early advice. If you actually want to learn EU4, stop playing Ireland. The lessons it’s teaching you are bad ones. Learn the game with nations like the Ottomans, France, Spain, Vijayanagar, Austria, and so on. You’ll learn how to never get stuck in an alliance deadlock. You’ll learn how to really expand. You’ll learn why

I was up to 120+ gold/month post-expenses by the time the Age of Revolutions started, is that acceptable, or are those rookie numbers?

...really are “rookie numbers” (by that stage, once you get good, you can have a monthly net income in the thousands plural). And so on. I always cringe when I see new players say that they want to play some weak OPM like an Irish minor. They either get frustrated and quit or they learn very sub-optimal approaches to the game.

[Camkitsune]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Camkitsune, I want to preface this by saying that if you are only interested in playing Irish minors, great. You do you! It’s a game, and games are supposed to be fun. If that’s the only thing you enjoy, so be it. But you started this thread because you ran into a situation you couldn’t fix, an alliance logjam. That’s a problem skilled players have no trouble circumventing, so I’m trying to help you get that skill. Also, understand that while I could analyze and critique pretty much everything you wrote, I don’t have the time to do so. I’m going to focus on just a couple illustrative points about AE and idea groups that I hope will emphasize my take home message—that Ireland isn’t where you should learn the game.

I was originally going to reply to this idea-by-idea, but since the responses tend to be in a very, very similar vein, I'll summarize.

You seem to understand that Ireland is in a unique situation.
You claim that you also understand that I'm playing in Ireland, and want to keep playing there, at least for now.

You then completely disregard both of these things, and tell me that I need idea groups that, while they hold immense value to someone playing on the continent and trying to expand as aggressively as possible, are of very little utility to early-game Ireland because of the unique nature of their situation.

The best strategy I've found for Ireland requires playing Tall.
Every single advantage you've listed for the three idea groups is geared towards playing wide.
Trying to play Wide as Ireland is not really option, at least not before you unite Britain.

Ironically, two of the three idea groups you've listed (Diplomacy and Admin) are ones that I go for after the first three.

If I wanted to play Wide, I'd be playing France, or Italy, or Austria. That's not where my interests lie, at least not now.

Anyway, Admin, Diplo, and Influence are so good and so powerful that they’re often referred to as the Big Three. No group is useless, but those three outperform all others in single player and are frequently taken first.

I can see their utility in the 'normal' game.
I am not playing the 'normal' game.
I am not going to be in a position to need AE reduction, take lots of vassals, or break up coalitions until later in the game.

You wrote that

Expansion has felt a bit like a trap

...but again, that’s because you don’t know the game. Expansion is one of the top six or so groups, and I eventually take it as every nation.

Yes, I could have guessed that - you very clearly gravitate towards a Wide play style.

Its final power, –10% minimum autonomy in territories, is good enough all by itself to justify taking it. Once you know how to expand well and use TCs effectively, it's massively powerful. But that’s just the start. You get twice as many colonists as Exploration! You get a merchant! You get trade power and a diplo relation slot! It’s truly amazing.

This makes sense - you clearly prefer playing wide.

Two more colonists is extremely useful if you already have the base to pay for their upkeep. Once you get to the point where there are no colonies left to take, those colonists are now three dead ideas - it's worth it if you can get enough out of them to make up the opportunity cost.

And those two colonists are the main reason I would take it - to get to critical areas before Spain.

If you actually want to learn EU4, stop playing Ireland. The lessons it’s teaching you are bad ones. Learn the game with nations like the Ottomans, France, Spain, Vijayanagar, Austria, and so on.

Your suggestion is noted.

You’ll learn why

I was up to 120+ gold/month post-expenses by the time the Age of Revolutions started, is that acceptable, or are those rookie numbers?

...really are “rookie numbers” (by that stage, once you get good, you can have a monthly net income in the thousands plural). And so on.

And if you don't know how to speed run Super Mario you aren't playing it right, got it.

I always cringe when I see new players say that they want to play some weak OPM like an Irish minor. They either get frustrated and quit or they learn very sub-optimal approaches to the game.

Gonna be blunt - your attitude has done more to put me off the game than anything the game has thrown at me. I was reluctant to post because I just knew I would run into people who insisted that I was doing it wrong because I'm playing 'sub-optimally'.

I don't want to play 'optimally'. I want to play in a way that I find fun.
What I find 'fun' is taking my OPM and getting as far as I can with it. I like the alt-history element of it.
That's why I asked the questions I did - it's the final thing I was running into that was proving a consistent problem.
That's why I expressed the frustration with the AI - it's less an issue of what they're paying attention to and more a problem with the game world feeling very, very stagnant.

The way you think is optimal is not optimal for me. I would not find playing that way fun.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Camkitsune:

You then completely disregard both of these things, and tell me that I need idea groups that, while they hold immense value to someone playing on the continent and trying to expand as aggressively as possible, are of very little utility to early-game Ireland because of the unique nature of their situation.

The best strategy I've found for Ireland requires playing Tall.

It's the best strategy that you've found, but it's not the best strategy. The best strategy for Ireland is to grow explosively, uniting the island and trying to grab Scotland before England does. Then you're in position to wipe out England, usually with French aid. Or perhaps you form a short-term alliance with Scotland and use them against England, too, before betraying them. Either way, the best strategy for Ireland is playing hyper-aggressively and wide. What you think is best isn't, and that's why you run into problems like the alliance logjam in your OP.

Look, you asked for help. I've tried to provide it, but you don't want to hear it because it doesn't match with the preconceptions of how to play that you've developed by choosing a bad choice for beginners. That choice is fine, of course. Play whoever and however you like, but understand that it will have consequences like being so far behind the great powers that you find yourself in "a game state where absolutely nothing happens for long stretches of time." But I guarantee that's avoidable if you're willing to try a different approach.

Either way, I'm done.

[Octopuses]

Get alliance with other strong nations, attack weak allies of the strong nation you want to beat. Use favors (50 favors for break alliance can sometimes make a huge difference).

Colonies really don't matter much. They don't help nearly as enough as their force numbers suggest.

I don't think you can conquer the whole Europe with an Irish minor (unless you are super tryhard experienced player), but you should be able to conquer Britain and even either France or Iberia.

[Chad]

Hey I'm going to give you actual advice thats going to help. I'll be talking about ideas first since that was just mentioned above but you can skip that if you don't feel thats important


From playing this game for a long time i'm going to tell there isn't "the best" idea group that's just garbage, most idea groups have it's uses and strengthen a specific playstyle. As above mentioned Exploration is a must to colonize, expansion turbo charges it but not necessecary if you war the colonizers and take their colonies instead. So take expansion if you are more passive in the new world.

maritime/naval are not useful and shouldn't be taken. the strength of your fleet mostly relies on your economic strength of your country. iike if you can afford 20-60 heavys you will win every naval battle.

For the rest i'll do some quick summarazations

Admin ideas:

-administrative:
Helps you to have a large empire and expand quickly. Personally am not a fan of tacking it first, more as the 4-6 idea group when you are able to conquer everyone. some even just take it and fill out the first 2 ideas since the rest isn't as useful compare to -25 coring costs

-economic:
gives money and helps you play tall. I personally rarely take it since innovative does everything that economic does and better

-innovative
Helps saving mana power and if you know how to use it helps you get lvl 3-5 advisors across the board., more on that later.more mana means you can conquer more, get more generals and develop more. best taken as the 1st or 2nd idea group pick and is one of my personal favourite the notion of it being a weak group is just wrong most don't use it right.

-religous/humanist
Both essentaily help with religious unity/rebellions. if you sturggle with relgion you'll need one of them but they aren't necessary per se.

Diplomatic ideas:

-diplomatic
the most important here are the more diplomats, more diplomatic reputation and 25% improve relation (which means 25% more agressive expansion decay) and -20% warescore cost. I am going to be honest i veery rarely take this idea bc it's not that useful for my playstyle. my reasoning being you don't really need more than 3 diplomats if you use them effectively, more dilp relation is really ust useful to integrate vassals easier which you can get, well form influence and the -20% warescore cost really just means wars are over easier and quicker, not really necessary when you do war well. you can't necessaroly take more land since your hard cap is 100% overextention unless you have a vassal in the region

-espionage
always saw it als a multiplayer thing and never take it but they keep buffing it it really looks more like alternative diplomatic. -20% ae impact is more or less 25% improve relations, has 1 diplomat and the 33 piracy efficency can be useful if you play as a barber nation to capture treasure fleets better.

-trade
more trade = more money. if you struggle with money and feel poor that is my goto idea

-influence
enhances vassals and vassal gameplay. my personal favourite diplo group

Military ideas:

-aristorcratic
the changing group one, i'll skip the others here and just talk about the aristorcratic one since it is the one that is available most of the time. essentialy the "make horses stronger" group with a bit of diplomatic in it. not a fan of it since horses use their usefulness around 1550/1600


-defensive
makes your army all around better and favours a playstyle where you let the enemy come to your forts in the first part of the war, then when its army is weakened/dead you counter siege. very useful if you fight against large power discrepancies like serbia vs ottomans but loses it usefulness against equal or smaller fights since you will be usually on the offensive in the first part

-offensive
makes your individual army groups better. this is an important distinction between defensive and mainly comes from the fact more value is placed on generals which is why i prefer it over defensive and my personal favourite mil group. your goal is having a strong fight army groups with a fight general and siege army groups with siege generals and the focus in the war here is getting enemy or enemies allies to surrender quickly by occupying them fast or stackwiping army groups so they can't defend anymore. if you are the type to juggle generals around often take this group.

-qualtiy
makes your army and navy better. that also is the reason why it is a mixed bag idea group in my opinion since the army side is useful but the navy side isnt. the +army tradition makes generals better so it pairs well as a 2nd milgroup after offensive. i do take it as my first mil group when a nation has infantry combat ability (like the swiss) in their idea group. paired with innovative you get even more inf combat ability, and will win fights very easly

-quantity
gives you a bigger army and manpower will never be an issue anymore. paires well with defensive. it used to give a 50% bigger force limit which was its main appeal which meant you could punch above your weight as a small nation. personally i rarely took it since bigger army = bigger economic strain meaning you would develop your nation slower. i am rarely at the force limit as is. with the reduction to 25% force limit i don't really see it useful since offensive already gives 15% and just so much more. barracks for manpower and regimental camps for force limit does pretty much what quantity does so you can just focus on more money.








I'll be talking estates for a bit since i consider it pretty integral but skip that to if you don't fell its necessary

Estate, estate happines and its privileges all matter. its often talked about the extra mana power from each faction but the agendas, the 25% advisor discounts, selling crownlands and havning loyal burgers are very very powerful tools. if you get a 50% cheaper advisor, take innovativeness for further 25% and the edict to further reduce it 25% you wil reach the -90% advisor cost cap can have high level advisors and will be swimming in monarch points. loyal burgers give -10% development cost very useful for spawning institutions and selling crownland gives a massive economy boost. if you want to play the high absolutism game you don't really have to start consolidating privieges and crownland around 1570-1610 and it can really boost your early game








trade
trade is not that complicated ad you dont have to understand it prefectly all the time to make good money from it. they are essentaily money rivers that all flow to the end nodes english sea, genoa and venice. the wealth of each region is determined by the wealth tha region produces itself + the value the individual streams feed into it. the wealth it produces depends on goods produced and what goods are produced. in normal speak that means you increase it by building workshops, manufacturies and develop your provinces with diplo power (high value good like silk, paper, dye are worth more than fish or wheat)

your main method of dominating trade is to control trade centers in the trade region, build marketplaces there and have trading ships patrol the region. each trade ship gives trade value and increases the overall trade value in the trade region meaning they give diminishing returns. (lets give an example lets say the trade value in the north sea is 10 you as ireland have 5 and scotland has 5 meaning each owns 50% of the trade node and gets 50% of the money. a trade ship has a value of 2. you put one there and the trade value goes up to 12 you own 7 scotland owns 5 meaning you own around 66%
lets say both of you have gone ham and each has 100 trade ships in the node increasing the trade power to 410 each having 205 trade power. adding another single ship on your side increases your side to 207. 207 to 205 is a much smaller relative difference than 7 to 5. all this means really if you have lets say 80 light ships they could be more effective if you put 20 in the caribbean, 20 in north gulf and 40 in the english sea, then having 80 in the english sea.)

every nation has a "home trading port" which is where the capital is when you start the game. for an irish minor its the north sea. you can change your trading depot like you change your capital, and its the button next to change your cpaital button and you pay 200 diplo points. you automatically collect from your home node even without a merchant. having a merchant in your home node collecting money gives a trade efficency boost. steering trade from literally any nation on the map increases your trade power by 10% in your home node if you dont collect anywhere else.
collecting somewhere else will make you lose that bonus plus collecting in a node that isn't your home node reduces your trading power by -50%. there are essentaily two apporaches: if you have a rich home trade port you want to funnel as much money as you can to it, if you have a poor home trade depot or its at the start/early in that river flow you want to send all your merchants to collect since you wont geet much value out of it

end nodes have another specialty that makes them very valuable: no one is able to steer from it. if for example you own all of the english sea no one except you can make it their home trade node meaning if they want to collect they will get the -50 trade power penalty. you will have pretty much 100% trade power then even if you don't put any trade ships in it and can send them to contested regions.








Now for the actual advice part regarding warfare. As much as you could be against blobbing, your goal as ireland really is to fight and win against england at the latest by 1500 (personally i'd say though the best first time is when they have the war of the roses) and slowly nibble on them in the following wars until the are gone.

having 1 or 2 vassals is always recommended in my opninon, espeically as one province minors since that will be way more usefull than onwing the land itself. lets say you start as an irish minor and you have 6-8 force limit like all the others. each vassal gives you a flat 1 forcelimit of your own as well as up to 3 vassal troops making 2 vassals jumoing your force to 14-16 ( if they actually train their troops) this makes it very easy to win against the rest of the irish minors very quickly.

find a 2 alliance group, stackwipe/defeat one army at the beginning of the war, put one infantry on their capital to prevent them to train their troops and deafeat the reminants and the war is pretty much over

find a multi alliance group that is fighting another allinace group and pile on the losing side for easy pickings or on the winning side to prevent them from getting stronger. if everyone stays weak and you get stronger it's easier to conquer eveyone later.

breaking bigger alliance blocks against strong nations can be tricky, as said above you can declare against a minor that has no friends except the big nation , win against the big nation and disolve their alliances with other strong nations (dont break the weak ones you want him to keep them) and attack them again within the next 10 years. bc thats how long the alliance break lasts your truce timer is a base 5 years for a withe piece with an additional year for every 10 war score. so take a 30% peace deal gives an 8 year truce, which is my sweet spot.

another useful tip is alliance chains break in general when your target is at war. lets say in englands speicfic case he is allied to portugal. if you see england is at war against france, france is very likely to go to portugal and siege its capital and portugal will veryl likely not join in a defensive war and you can attack england without having portugal in it. you can force these siutation too with condottieri but thats a bit advanced (and gimmicky/annoying to do best is to wait for good porotunties)

If the alliance chain is stable you have to make an allience chain that is stronger as dumb as it sounds. check which englands rivlas are ( probably denmark, france burgundy or austria) if england is your rival, these ppl will very likely be your allies. don't give your allies anything and let them do as much of the heavy lifting as possible so they stay weaker and you grow quicker as your allies. for example france would be a natural next target after you conquered all of england. if you let them spend all their ressources to fight for you its likely they'll lose against burgundy or austria, meaning you can fight them easier too.

vassal core feeding is a good strategy to avoid coalitions as mentioned above. whe you win your first war against england take one province in the northumberland and the wales area, integrate the rest of the irish vasals if you still have some, then release the new wales and northumberland vassal as one province minors and you have plenty of stuff to renconquer in the next war.

for a coaltion to form there needs to be at least 4 nations that have 50 aggressive expantion against you, have a negative opinion and do not have a truce. sending a diplomat to put 100+ imporved realtions can very like keep them out of a coalition if the dont rival you and you can go up to have 70-80 aggressive expansion against them but you have to keep an eye out there that there opinion will never fall negative.

last thing i want to mention is double tapping/truce reducing a nation. lets say england for some reason has an irish minor as an ally. once you occupy that minor in a war immediatly white peace them and continue fighting england. once you won the england war make a high 80-100% peace deal (taking money and war reparations, retaking the cores for northumberland and wales or if its the first war take one province to release wales and northumberland and take other english provinces that arent their cores) england will have a 13-15 year truce with you and all they will pretty much recover all the damage you caused in the war will be at full strength when you fight them again. but you white pieced that irish minor earlier so they only had the 5 year truce timer. since it takes a while fighting england it could even be only a 2 year truce or the truce is already gone entirely. then you can immediatly fight england again when they pretty much have no army. then you can white iece them to reduce that truce to 5 years or take money and war reps again (taking land isnt worth against secondary participants most of the time) you will keep them in a weakened state that way and have an easier time in the next war.

[BlackRose <3]

Your goal with Ireland is to smash England as early as possible, preferably before they gobble up scotland completely.

To that note take an idea early that helps you with fighting, expansion or AE management.

So stuff like Offensive(Straight up buffs to your army and leaders)/Diplo(Helps you manage AE and annex the eventual vassals you will be releasing from conquered English provinces, such as Northumberland, Wales, etc...)/Espionage(20% AE reduction is pretty big, so is siege ability, you also get siege ability from spy network construction, which espionage helps you with).

Also do not be afraid to take loans, most of the early ones are very small and inconsequential. Go over the force limit if you have to, conquer ireland as fast as you can.

As for 120 income a month at the age of revolutions...that is not good. I reached 120 in my Teutons game by the 1550s which is the Age of Reformation.

[Medicles]

Originally posted by Camkitsune:

I don't want to play 'optimally'. I want to play in a way that I find fun.
What I find 'fun' is taking my OPM and getting as far as I can with it. I like the alt-history element of it.
That's why I asked the questions I did - it's the final thing I was running into that was proving a consistent problem.
That's why I expressed the frustration with the AI - it's less an issue of what they're paying attention to and more a problem with the game world feeling very, very stagnant.

The way you think is optimal is not optimal for me. I would not find playing that way fun.

This doesnt make sense, man. Expansion is the name of the game and roleplaying will eventually cause the situations you are finding yourself in, because the AI doesnt roleplay, the AI wants to expand. You have to expand or you get demolished.

If you cant take over the british isles as Ireland, then you should start expanding into Africa and not try to colonize America, because little Ireland will never compete with the colonial powers. If you are then big enough, you take over the british isles, usually with Frances help and then you can compete with Spain and that you dont do by supporting the independence of their colonial nations, but by simply attacking Spain, because their armies are usually in America. The colonies do not matter when you have Spain besieged and naval dominance.

If you want to play tall though, this is not the game for you. The only way to play tall here is to still expand by feeding vassals, but never by staying a small country for 400 years. So i would suggest you either adapt to that or you play CK3.