How to beat Ottomans as Poland

[klirko]

It is 1505, I annexed Danzig, Mazovia, Lithuania as a junior partner, and Austrians as my allies. Ottomans declared war on me, me and austria had 32k troops in a mountain province, Ottomans attacked with 17k, absolutely destroyed us with their garbage general while we both had 3 star generals. How do I beat the Ottomans?

[Casual909]

They usually get weaker in their late game. In early game they are OP af

[klirko]

Originally posted by Casual909:

They usually get weaker in their late game. In early game they are OP af

So it is usual to get your ass kicked?

[Johnny]

What was your military tech
What was their military tech
What was their idea groups
What was your idea groups
What was your moral
What was Austria's moral
What was Ottoman Moral
What was your disipline
What was Austria' disipline
What was Ottoman disipline
What was your military maintenance
What was your army composition
What was Austria's army composition
What was Ottoman's army composition

Answer these and MAYBE we can tell you why. Or upload a save

[pmpdadypenguinmn]

By 1500 as Poland you should probably have Bohemia as a junior partner and sweden as a march. But even if you had them with it being so early in the game, the Ottoman armies are so strong until after tech 16 winning a war without overwhelming numbers is difficult. They tend to form doom stacks with 3 star generals that are hard to take down. I would bring all your troops together and try to get a few wins against him in battles and try to get a white peace. Then go over diplo relations limit and get some strong allies while preparing to attack him in the future. Mamaluks make a good ally against him if he hasn't been completely wrecked already

[Azazel]

Originally posted by Cazadors are Gay:

Originally posted by Casual909:

They usually get weaker in their late game. In early game they are OP af

So it is usual to get your ass kicked?

absolutely not!choose the right allys,austria can be a good one,,stay up in milit tech and wait for your opportunity-a ottoman involvment in a big war,usualy their first against the mameluks.give them some monthes to shift their troops towards arabia.then DOW them.you should be able to siege down his european land before you get involved in major battles.warscore will be ticking for you...peace out when you feel its enough for this time.repeat.repeat.
after you have "activated" your polish ideas the ottos cant treat you anymore.(no one can...)
just had a poland run for this 1million death achievement.took innovatnes,quantity and quality as first groups.+40% infantry AND +40(or more)% cavalry combat ability realy did the job for my poland.whipped the floor with the french and ottos armys

[tavald.musashi]

What do you mean by destroyed?
Because mathematically it should be impossible to be stackwiped.
Also, I think the combat width is 20 at the start of the game.

[Songbird]

The biggest problem with ottomans is their lucky nation modifier. This will keep AE significantly down and they can seemingly chain annex the smaller nations. If you don't play Ironman disable it. It really only helps the Ottomans, the other nations don't profit that much if at all. Once disabled the game forms, as intended, coalitions against them.

Other than that quickly get Moldavia and chain wars against them as Poland until they are dead, this applies for both with and without lucky nations. Ottomans can't beat you with Lithuania in PU.

Remember tho that the Ottoman AI cheats and will get 3 star general regardless of army tradition, so make sure to only with them in open terrain.

[tonypa]

Multiple DLCs will make Ottos even stronger at the start of the game (MoH, CoC). If you want to play near them it is better to disable these DLC at the start.

This is from my last game as Lithuania (1554, fighting both Ottos and Muscovy):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1662201357

This is from my Poland/PLC game to illustrate why deathstacks are stupid:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1447529622

In general Poland becomes stronger while unlocking ideas into 1600s, just keep stacking cavalry modifiers and run over your enemies with your cavalry. Ottos start to lose quality as game advances, they are best at the very start and they start to blob early but they can run into troubles at 1600s so just hang in there.

[klirko]

Originally posted by Azazel:

Originally posted by Cazadors are Gay:

So it is usual to get your ass kicked?

absolutely not!choose the right allys,austria can be a good one,,stay up in milit tech and wait for your opportunity-a ottoman involvment in a big war,usualy their first against the mameluks.give them some monthes to shift their troops towards arabia.then DOW them.you should be able to siege down his european land before you get involved in major battles.warscore will be ticking for you...peace out when you feel its enough for this time.repeat.repeat.
after you have "activated" your polish ideas the ottos cant treat you anymore.(no one can...)
just had a poland run for this 1million death achievement.took innovatnes,quantity and quality as first groups.+40% infantry AND +40(or more)% cavalry combat ability realy did the job for my poland.whipped the floor with the french and ottos armys

i was allied with Austria, Ottomans invaded Mamluks, months later the 100% th Mamluks. They then came up to us and defeated each army.

[klirko]

They also have 65k

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by tonypa:

...

Figthing 1550 is completely different to 1500 tho

The problem is simply that Poland gets a 1 mil ruler when choosing the PU, who can reign up to 50 years with bad luck. That makes it quite hard to stay on par with mil tech and almost impossible to already take a mil idea in the first 2 groups (without falling behind)

Without screenshot of battle nothing clear can be said - but Ottos most likely have quality superiority.

[Azazel]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1686237723
novgorod,chernigov,bohemia,kurland,wallachia,transylvania and serbia are my vasalls
i declined the PU over lithunia,got a 6/6/6 king who ruled for nearly 50 years,main goal was winning the religious war.so i went protestant .
when i want to go against the ottos,france or against any other big boy quantity is a natural choice for me.so ,im not afraid of 65k ottos because i usualy will have somewhere similar numbers.i will never fall back in military tech.for no price!and under no circumstances.my enemys will never have a battle against me in terain that is not in my favor.usualy the KI is not able to hold their troops together(Human can,ottos can do it,too..).they will split to siege here and there.so,go for the single stacks.

[reprodukTOOOOOOOOOOOR]

you can beat ottomans as byzantium, I don´t understand how you manage to screw up as poland...

[klirko]

Originally posted by Martin Papp:

you can beat ottomans as byzantium, I don´t understand how you manage to screw up as poland...

If you ally Austria, Poland, or Hungary. And you also have to be really lucky and good.

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by Cazadors are Gay:

Originally posted by Martin Papp:

you can beat ottomans as byzantium, I don´t understand how you manage to screw up as poland...

If you ally Austria, Poland, or Hungary. And you also have to be really lucky and good.

You can also do it with only minors + Skanderbro, tho yeah not everyone can do that.

Ottos are also way weaker at the start of the game - Constantinopel is already their first big power spike.

Around 1455+ they start to steamroll everyone