stupid mayan reforms

[monicaida25]

I'm playing with Cocomes, and I managed to maintain an acceptable technology to be Native American and at the same time, invade the Mayan territory to later form the Mayan Empire ... I sincerely do not understand what the game wants to form the Mayan empire, they implement he says "it's not reformed Mayan religion" great ... I thought it would be a translation mistake because my game is in Spanish.

I went to the window of reforms, reformed the religion to have a settler and booom ... -1 stability and 3/4 of all my damn territory released and cores eliminated ... wtf? what kind of stupid mechanics is this? and also the possibility of creating the Mayan empire has been eliminated.

That is, I sent the devil my administrative and diplomatic points to invade the territory, I sent the devil the possibility of creating the Mayan empire, and to top it all I have to invade again ... all this for a settler? seriously? the worst is that it is ironman and now I must restart everything from scratch.

I repeat that it is the stupidest mechanics I have found so far.

[tinisiyo]

Originally posted by monicaida25:

can not be more absurd this Mayan game, I sincerely prefer to conquer everything and wait for Europeans to come to reform government.

really, religious reforms are not worth it, and the same wiki says that it is almost never possible to reform all religion without breaking a truce.

You can just turn off dlc for Mayan religion reformation i think. Should be Eldorado dlc.
As for me, I used to play as Mesoamericans only for their overpowered reformed religions really. But yeah, it takes certain skill and luck to reform fast and easy.

[monicaida25]

Originally posted by tinisiyo:

Originally posted by monicaida25:

can not be more absurd this Mayan game, I sincerely prefer to conquer everything and wait for Europeans to come to reform government.

really, religious reforms are not worth it, and the same wiki says that it is almost never possible to reform all religion without breaking a truce.

You can just turn off dlc for Mayan religion reformation i think. Should be Eldorado dlc.
As for me, I used to play as Mesoamericans only for their overpowered reformed religions really. But yeah, it takes certain skill and luck to reform fast and easy.

It is not possible, I tried to create the Mayan empire before buying El Dorado and the game always asks for the reformed Mayan religion.

And, well, more than difficult, it's ridiculous, in my personal opinion

[kaiyl_kariashi]

nah, you don't need ED for Form Maya. Though the exact requirements will change depending on what dlc you have.


with none at all, you just need one of (Economic, Innovative, Administrative) completed, have embraced feudalism, reasonably high legitimacy, and +3 stability. And then after that you just need to control the correct provinces, be independant, and at peace to form Maya (you'll have the other requirements in the process of reforming your government).

With ED you play the religious mini-game instead of normal native gameplay (ED completely supercedes all other methods of reforming).

With Dharma you just need to embrace feudalism, which will automatically reform your government, and then control the correct provinces, etc.

[monicaida25]

Anyway, I did it !!! But I did not get the steam achievement ... and I would like to know why

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1660570182

[tonypa]

This?
"The League of Mayapan - Starting as Huastec, form Maya."

[kaiyl_kariashi]

Not the right minor, assuming this was still same game as the one in the OP.

[monicaida25]

the reformed religion is like a useless garbage, because the Spaniards attack me again and again with their OP troops and I do not know how to win these wars

[Fellini_Fiend]

Just get good. I mean that as no offense btw, playing as any native primitive nation in the Americas is very different from ALL other nations in the game. You should count your blessings that it forces you to do SOMETHING at all because if you didn’t do all the rinse and repeat conquests you would literally sit there doing absolutely nothing. And the religious bonuses for each of the native religions can be quite good and with enough skill you can pass all reforms and conquer everyone around you by 1500 easily.

But the game gets extremely boring by that point because you will be sitting there for nearly another 100 years doing absolutely nothing but upgrading gold provinces and culturally converting where you can because the colonizers take a long time to get there.

And when you finally reform, the first thing you should do is build all the heavy ships you can. If they cannot land then they can never beat you in a war. And if you try out playing as Aztec with the Nahuatl religious reforms you will find them to be a powerhouse of a militaristic nation and eventually it won’t matter that they land you can easily take them on despite being a reformed primitive.

Achievement wise you may have played with the wrong nation to do it. The achievement is for the Mayan OPM that is surrounded by Nahuatl nations. You have to conquer your way through them and get into the Yucatán peninsula to eventually get the land needed to form the Maya nation.

If you thought playing as them was bad good luck enjoying playing as a Totemist nation, by far one of the worst religions if not the worst in the game. Though starting as Caddo or someone else near the Mesoamerican region and becoming Nahuatl religion with the North American native ideas set has some good quality, you will just have to go through the Nahuatl reforms is all.

[tinisiyo]

Originally posted by monicaida25:

the reformed religion is like a useless garbage, because the Spaniards attack me again and again with their OP troops and I do not know how to win these wars

Well, thats what historically happened to natives :(
To succeed as natives you should be really fast reforming, conquering and expanding. Should try to reform by 1500 really, and then you will have 50 years to do nothing earning money and prepare for such wars vs europeans.

[monicaida25]

The Nahuatl are my last concern, I've eaten the Aztecs just with blinking, that's not the problem ... in fact, I've invaded almost all of Mexico ... the problem is the Europeans, and especially the Spaniards, because sometimes I feel that if I had not wasted time conquering and reconquering the same territories for 100 years, I would have expanded rapidly, I would have spent more time farming monarch points, I would have improved all the necessary provinces, and I would have prepared better for the arrival of the Europeans

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1660722156

I managed to create the Mayan empire in 1515 or 20 approximately, which was the year of my direct encounter with the Spanish colonies, the problem is that Spain declares war immediately with 3 military points above me, and I do not even have the mercenaries necessary to face it, although it is useless anyway, because in all my battles, I have less than half of the morale of Spain.

i mean... look at this...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1660715150

[monicaida25]

Originally posted by tinisiyo:

Originally posted by monicaida25:

the reformed religion is like a useless garbage, because the Spaniards attack me again and again with their OP troops and I do not know how to win these wars

Well, thats what historically happened to natives :(
To succeed as natives you should be really fast reforming, conquering and expanding. Should try to reform by 1500 really, and then you will have 50 years to do nothing earning money and prepare for such wars vs europeans.

the problem is that you can not reform if you do not have a European neighbor, and precisely Spain declared war on me immediately I got the neighborhood with its colonies ... then it is worth the same if you get all the reforms fast or slow, it is exactly the same

[Fellini_Fiend]

This is why culturally converting can also be very helpful, if they are your culture and were in a state you won’t lose cores ever. But also losing a single war with Spain can also be blessing believe it or not. You’re in fact lucky that they got there that early, in my games nobody borders me until nearly 1600 which is super frustrating because so desperately want to reform and you can’t until someone borders you. This is why losing is a blessing ESPECIALLY if they take 5 provinces from you because then they will create a colonial nation and you can freely attack them for your cores (preferably after you have reformed) and they won’t be able to do anything about it since you’re capital is in a colonial region.

Like I said, playing as a primitive as well as in the Americas is different from other nations. On top of the religious reforms required, there is that fact that you can freely declare wars on colonial nations without their overlord’s involvement. Also btw you won’t have a truce with the colonial nation that gets formed so you can instantly declare war on them once institutions have been spread into a province that was owned by you and then reform after the war. The colonial nation will be pretty weak to start with and if you gave up land that was unfortified then you can spread your troops out into all five provinces you have before they can build a single regiment. After that though you seriously need to focus on building a heavy ship focused navy that can destroy the navies of any European that declares war on you. And they will declare a war on you even nice you have more ships than them because the AI does not take navies into account for your actual strength they only take land numbers into account. I’ve been declared on by France, Spain, Portugal all at the same time and never lost a war against them because they could compete to my naval dominance and after five years of a war without any land battles I could easily take whatever holdings they had in the continent without them stepping on to American soil. It’s one of the few times in the game where navies actually matter and is probably the only time where it matters while armies don’t matter at all.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

the native reforms are actually really powerful, but you need to practice getting them done quickly and efficiently. (it's a trival joke as Mayan, and Inca isn't much harder. Aztecs though....)


Though expanding won't help you any (the best provinces in America you'll already own by time you've consolidated). Just conquering the Aztecs gives you an assload of money (primitives only get 1/10th the value from their gold mines) the instant you lose your primitive penalties which is all you need to beat Spain as far as economy goes.



And drum this into your head....you are NOT losing anything by reforming. You spend a trivial amount of MP of completing the reforms and get around 5000-6000 of each MP in free techs when you do finally reform (the exact amount will vary based on how long it takes a European to show up).



But you will be around 2 techs down after reforming, so you'll be vulnerable while you spring ahead on techs (try to have as close to 1200 of each MP as you can after reforming so you can immediately buy a couple tech levels and close the gap even further, you'll lose anything above 999 after one tick once you reform, so reform while paused and spend quickly. And Develop down to that amount with any excess points you've stocked piled before you reform).

It's advised to immediately start building opinion as soon as you see a western nation as this reduces their desire to attack you. (if you can keep your relations over 100, they'll lose stability to declare war on you, which the ai will almost never do unless they're a hyper-militarist).

[monicaida25]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1660858481

this ♥♥♥♥ is not a blessing, it's the fourth time the Spaniards have screwed me, and the last time they took away no 5, no 6, no 10 ... they took away 23 provinces, and I have to declare war by breaking truce to recover all my things.

Climbing relations with Europeans is not possible if you do not know their capital, and although Europeans have contact with you in 1500, you have to wait a long time to find the capital ... But even if you increase the relationship, they will also ♥♥♥♥ you if they want your provinces, since their relationship can easily go down <-100 just because they want your provinces (as is my case).

perhaps I lack experience, but in practical matters, the religious reforms in this game have not served me for absolutely nothing ... in fact, my mistake has been not to change to catholicism ... At least that way I would have more diplomatic possibilities.

I correct myself, the reform has served me so that the creation of cores is more economical, but that does not help at all if the Spaniards continue snatching and eliminating my cores

[monicaida25]

Originally posted by Fellini_Fiend87:

This is why culturally converting can also be very helpful, if they are your culture and were in a state you won’t lose cores ever. But also losing a single war with Spain can also be blessing believe it or not. You’re in fact lucky that they got there that early, in my games nobody borders me until nearly 1600 which is super frustrating because so desperately want to reform and you can’t until someone borders you. This is why losing is a blessing ESPECIALLY if they take 5 provinces from you because then they will create a colonial nation and you can freely attack them for your cores (preferably after you have reformed) and they won’t be able to do anything about it since you’re capital is in a colonial region.

Like I said, playing as a primitive as well as in the Americas is different from other nations. On top of the religious reforms required, there is that fact that you can freely declare wars on colonial nations without their overlord’s involvement. Also btw you won’t have a truce with the colonial nation that gets formed so you can instantly declare war on them once institutions have been spread into a province that was owned by you and then reform after the war. The colonial nation will be pretty weak to start with and if you gave up land that was unfortified then you can spread your troops out into all five provinces you have before they can build a single regiment. After that though you seriously need to focus on building a heavy ship focused navy that can destroy the navies of any European that declares war on you. And they will declare a war on you even nice you have more ships than them because the AI does not take navies into account for your actual strength they only take land numbers into account. I’ve been declared on by France, Spain, Portugal all at the same time and never lost a war against them because they could compete to my naval dominance and after five years of a war without any land battles I could easily take whatever holdings they had in the continent without them stepping on to American soil. It’s one of the few times in the game where navies actually matter and is probably the only time where it matters while armies don’t matter at all.

I think you are saying things the other way around, because the longer you have without European contact, the more free time you have to develop your territory and prepare for the arrival of Europeans.

I got a border with Spain in about 1524, and since then, I have not had a single peace keeper, 1 or 2 years later, Spain declares war on me, and during the truce Portugal attacks me, and when Portugal finishes killing me and I can recover me a bit, Spain attacked me again, and the worst, they have already attacked me 3 times between the 2, and that implies Spain, Portugal and all its colonies ... Surviving until 1670 has been a miracle and a feat, and I'm simply exhausted, I hate having to fight a war every 10 or 20 years and having to reconquer territory at every moment ... when will I be a powerful nation?