Moscow or St Petersburg?

[Tethryss]

Which should I have the capital of Russia be and why in your opinion.

[Frozenkhan]

St Petersburg, besides all the obvious reasons.
It has the better trade node.

[Ypulse]

Originally posted by l'empereur:

St Petersburg, besides all the obvious reasons.
It has the better trade node.

there is no obvious reason
its the same trade node...and it is lower dev province even after the event
and moscow has better trade goods (iron instead)

its only good idea to switch when playing as novgorodians after forming russia

[Bird the III]

i'd change it .
its a cheap place to develope the printing press institution.
get's a free decission to boost the dev & free prestige.
and has a decent trade good in a place you would like to dev anyway

so why not

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by Ypulse:

Originally posted by l'empereur:

St Petersburg, besides all the obvious reasons.
It has the better trade node.

there is no obvious reason
its the same trade node...and it is lower dev province even after the event
and moscow has better trade goods (iron instead)

its only good idea to switch when playing as novgorodians after forming russia

Not true at all.

Getting a Capital with lower dev is the best you could ask for since you can get an institution cheaper like that (due to up to -50% cost in cap)

A good idea would be to get Colonialism in Moscow and then switch the Capital to St.Petersburg and get Printing Press there.

Besides that: As Bird said, free Prestige and 3 dev. Even that is better than nothing.

In most cases you want to switch your capital if you get an option via decisions.

[Damphair]

It's a RP thing, do it if you want to recreate the visions of Peter the Great. The only upside is the free development and prestige you get, but I usually develop Neva for colonialism long before I can change the capital. The only real issue with St. Petersburg is that it's poorly defended if you don't have Finland, and you are suspectible for naval invasions (not that the AI usually thinks that far).

[Mikey]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Originally posted by Ypulse:

there is no obvious reason
its the same trade node...and it is lower dev province even after the event
and moscow has better trade goods (iron instead)

its only good idea to switch when playing as novgorodians after forming russia

Not true at all.

Getting a Capital with lower dev is the best you could ask for since you can get an institution cheaper like that (due to up to -50% cost in cap)

A good idea would be to get Colonialism in Moscow and then switch the Capital to St.Petersburg and get Printing Press there.

Besides that: As Bird said, free Prestige and 3 dev. Even that is better than nothing.

In most cases you want to switch your capital if you get an option via decisions.

To my knowledge the institution costs around 4000mp no matter where you place it and what dev that province has. Higher developed provinces just need to increase dev less due to higher base cost.

Besides that yeah, free dev is free dev and moving from the moscow node to the baltic node is also much better

[brian_va]

^ it's around 2000, but can vary depending on what you start out at. Either way, it's a lot, and Russia is close enough to Europe that it may not be worth it, take some swedish lands that have it and that can get you close to the 10% mark. Of course, some would say it is, so whatever floats your boat.

[Ypulse]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Originally posted by Ypulse:

there is no obvious reason
its the same trade node...and it is lower dev province even after the event
and moscow has better trade goods (iron instead)

its only good idea to switch when playing as novgorodians after forming russia

Not true at all.

Getting a Capital with lower dev is the best you could ask for since you can get an institution cheaper like that (due to up to -50% cost in cap)

A good idea would be to get Colonialism in Moscow and then switch the Capital to St.Petersburg and get Printing Press there.

Besides that: As Bird said, free Prestige and 3 dev. Even that is better than nothing.

In most cases you want to switch your capital if you get an option via decisions.

i never spawned printing press or any other via developing the capital as russia, only the colonial one, since it is not necessary to develop/spawn and actually not even easy to do so without falling behind. its not slow/painful like colonial

also its not free to change capital with the event, and with that money u can hire advisors to upgrade moskva too
(its not +3 dev btw, the event gives +3 manpower and +6 tax)
Having capital in the western direction will increase the state maintenance more, unless u expand into baltic region, which almost never happens as muscovy. Near moskva there are other grasslands for potential development which are not so bad, also considering their state maintenaince are lowered too.
and u can also convert to protestant

moskva= higher income, a bit lower state maintenance
neva= maybe a bit faster printing press, +100 prestige

neva is just short term benefit if at all

[Mr.M]

The problem is this:

Up to 10 dev you have no penalty, 50 base cost. The penalty is 3% for each dev above 10.
Every 10 dev the penalty per dev is increased by 3%.

Which means the higher the dev the more expensive it gets.

Now, higher dev also means higher institution points gain per dev you invest, but the points for the instit only increase by a fixed value, 0.17, for each dev.

Means you basically want your province to have as low dev as possible if you want to spawn an institution.

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by Ypulse:

...

If you dont go into Baltic Printing Press will also take its time. Besides, as Muscovy Livonian Order is an easy early game target so you will (or rather should) get it anyway.

And TO is free reconquest later on.

And if we argue about the money saved from reduced state maintenance and 1 years income... I will stop here. Because money is the least thing (or rather SHOULD be) to worry about if you play as a major power such as Muscovy.

"also its not free to change capital with the event, and with that money u can hire advisors to upgrade moskva too"

...

[Ypulse]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Originally posted by Ypulse:

...

If you dont go into Baltic Printing Press will also take its time. Besides, as Muscovy Livonian Order is an easy early game target so you will (or rather should) get it anyway.

And TO is free reconquest later on.

PS: If we argue about the money saved from reduced state maintenance and 1 years income...

even livonian order is "bad" idea for muscovy to expand into, especially the osel island. since u wont collect/steer trade there, u only make ur enemies trade richer, but it is still good to deny those lands however. as novgorodian, going into baltic is natural since u can handle even baltic trade if needed, and as naval/trade power u need coasts.

printing press is not that slow, and getting colonial+printing press via spawn is waste of points, better get ideas instead or just tech
also its not 1 year of income only, u will get less income overall through all game cos u develop neva instead of moskva, and state maintenance is a thing for russia especially without expansion idea group
as muscovy it doesnt make much sense to change capital, but its good option for other flags.
It can be situational option for muscovian russia too, if they go some kind of naval "dominance", where getting new coasts + high developed neva will help a lot, otherwise not. but the standard russia dont want to go naval at all, the less coasts u have the better, cos in wars u will get less -score and less war exhaustion.

[Ypulse]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Originally posted by Ypulse:

...

And if we argue about the money saved from reduced state maintenance and 1 years income... I will stop here. Because money is the least thing (or rather SHOULD be) to worry about if you play as a major power such as Muscovy.

...

not much worry about money, more like its not that cheap option or faster printing press as u try to show. with that less income and money to found neva as capital, u can spend that money into moskva. also the bigger problem is again spawning 2 instuition in a row is very painful, and spawning colonial is more important than printing press


i forgot to mention important thing that st.petersburg decision was added in the old times. in old patches moskva has grain instead of iron.