Does a Marketplace provide any benefit if I have 100% control over the associated trade node

[Garanvir]

Much as it says in the subject line, if I already have full control (100% trade power) in the trade node associated with a province, does a Markletplace/Trade Depot/Stock Exchange provide any further benefit? Or is it a waste of ducats to build?

What about sending a fleet to patrol? I gather that would at least serve the purpose of chasing off any pirates...

[Blue Knight™]

if you control 100% of a node, you get 100% of the proift, trade power isnt profit

[Fantastic Fwoosh]

It makes it more resilient to another nation floating their trading fleet & trying to compete with you, not to say that a 100% is actually nessecary when you can easily leave it at 70% - 80% and be comfortable refocusing on pushing money upstream to it.

If there's no money to squeeze from the node then you're wasting your time effectively blocking it from going anywhere except for choking the value of nodes upstream. End nodes should be provincially strong with markets so you can focus your navies mainly on just pushing money into it like a big net.

[freestyler-rs]

Originally posted by Garanvir:

Much as it says in the subject line, if I already have full control (100% trade power) in the trade node associated with a province, does a Markletplace/Trade Depot/Stock Exchange provide any further benefit? Or is it a waste of ducats to build?

What about sending a fleet to patrol? I gather that would at least serve the purpose of chasing off any pirates...

If you control 100%, then it's a waste of money. Trade depots do nothing for the value in the node and with 100% power, you obviously already get everything and can push it around any way you like. Let me guess! You're contemplating a marketplace in capetown?

[Barry White]

Wont a marketplace increase trade power propogation?

[Fantastic Fwoosh]

Trade power doesn't affect the total value of ducats in a node only your ability to draw on it/push it around as others have said, improving & developing land and trade goods raises value.

EI - production & making more manufactories, investing into more valuable goods, especially the new ones in the patch with early farm estates.

The more production a province has does improve the local trade power but they are not connected in that way and are two seperate systems. Total made goods will increase with (roughly 0.20 at 0 autonomy) development and that'll net you bonuses.

[freestyler-rs]

Originally posted by Barry White:

Wont a marketplace increase trade power propogation?

well technically yes. since a fraction of your trade power in a node gets transitioned upstream, a marketplace does have a little influence on the nodes upstream that you draw value from.

[Garanvir]

Thanks for all the answers!!

Originally posted by freestyler-rs:

Originally posted by Garanvir:

Let me guess! You're contemplating a marketplace in capetown?

Actually I'm playing a custom start continuation of a Crusader Kings II game created with the EU4 converter for CK2 where I start out as Scotland (or actually the Empire of Alba) controlling most of Europe, North Africa and the MIddle East... just a wee bit overpowered so not sure how exciting it will be to the end but since I bought that converter figured I should give it a try...

[Barry White]

Originally posted by freestyler-rs:

well technically yes. since a fraction of your trade power in a node gets transitioned upstream, a marketplace does have a little influence on the nodes upstream that you draw value from.

Well, trade propogation can be significant in certain nodes. Propogation from europe to america or from europe to africa can take most of the trade power unless the provinces in those regions get developed. By the time you monopolise a trade node (meaning its either an end node or you control all its upstream nodes) youre probably ridiculously rich anyway so id build them more for the sake of it than anything else.

Originally posted by Garanvir:

What about sending a fleet to patrol? I gather that would at least serve the purpose of chasing off any pirates...

Send it downstream, This is literally why trade ships are for: stealing trade from nodes where you dont dominate.

[freestyler-rs]

Originally posted by Barry White:

Originally posted by freestyler-rs:

well technically yes. since a fraction of your trade power in a node gets transitioned upstream, a marketplace does have a little influence on the nodes upstream that you draw value from.

Well, trade propogation can be significant in certain nodes. Propogation from europe to america or from europe to africa can take most of the trade power unless the provinces in those regions get developed. By the time you monopolise a trade node (meaning its either an end node or you control all its upstream nodes) youre probably ridiculously rich anyway so id build them more for the sake of it than anything else.

Originally posted by Garanvir:

What about sending a fleet to patrol? I gather that would at least serve the purpose of chasing off any pirates...

Send it downstream, This is literally why trade ships are for: stealing trade from nodes where you dont dominate.

trade propagation doesn't matter much in nodes where you got 100% though. Because those are usually uncontested low province/power trade nodes and even in the bigger nodes one marketplace doesn't have a huge impact unless you're stockpiling the boni on top of each other as a merchant republic or sth.... But if you do that, you shouldn't aim for 100% trade power anyways unless it's really a pure pipeline node because of the added trade value generation merchant republics give to provinces of every other nation which makes it that you get richer if you own as little of the colonized land as possible while still having as much tradepower as possible.

and I suppose you meant upstream? downstream is where a node sends value to. upstream is where it receives value from. You use ships upstream and on home nodes so you divert as much value as possible towards your main trading port and then take as much of it as possible for yourself.

[Barry White]

I may have been getting upstream/downstream confused.

Originally posted by freestyler-rs:

trade propagation doesn't matter much in nodes where you got 100% though. Because those are usually uncontested low province/power trade nodes and even in the bigger nodes one marketplace doesn't have a huge impact unless you're stockpiling the boni on top of each other as a merchant republic or sth.... But if you do that, you shouldn't aim for 100% trade power anyways unless it's really a pure pipeline node because of the added trade value generation merchant republics give to provinces of every other nation which makes it that you get richer if you own as little of the colonized land as possible while still having as much tradepower as possible.

I would use the english channel as the counter example to what you claim about propagation being insignificant in any nodes significant. The english channel has the north sea and chesapeake bay (?) feed into it both of which will typically be relatively low trade power nodes. A marketplace in Holland or London wont be significant propogation (it never is) but at the point where you have 100% control over the english channel none of this matters since 100 ducats is peanuts to you, you should already have a marketplace in these provinces and its well worth maximising your trade power in the other nodes since its 100% gain to you.
The same argument you make about 1 marketplace not having a huge impact can be applied even to centres of trade in nodes like genoa. A marketplace in Florence might not even increase your trade power by 1% of the node but its still worth building one there even as a minor. Nodes where 1 trade power isnt very much compensate (generally) by being very rich and the opposite is also true. There can be exceptions to this on account of manufactories but even then it will usually hold.

The point you make about merchant republics isnt really related to this in my opinion and i would add lucca producing 50% more goods isnt going to make you as much money as you owning lucca regardless of how much of the node you control. The same can likely be said for anywhere besides perhaps places like Brazil if there are hundreds of manufactories but this is rarely the case.

Originally posted by freestyler-rs:

and I suppose you meant upstream? downstream is where a node sends value to. upstream is where it receives value from. You use ships upstream and on home nodes so you divert as much value as possible towards your main trading port and then take as much of it as possible for yourself.

I may have gotten the terms wrong but the idea should be clear (since doing the opposite is pointless).

[freestyler-rs]

Don't argue for the sake of arguing please. A marketplace in the english channel when you're at 100% is NEVER worth the money if there is anything else at all you could do with it. To achieve 100% you have to basically own all of Europe so no fleets interfere and noone tries to collect there. Just cause you're rolling in the dough doesn't mean that the math changes. And letting a lot of other countries produce stuff for you while you pile trading efficiency and trade power in your trade centres, will always be more profitable than conquest if you choose the trading route. You can theoretically increase the trade value the node as a whole is producing by up to 50% which you can then direct to your home node where your trading efficiency turns it into multiple times the money you'd get if you owned the province directly. It's just not as satisfying. province income is nice, but nothing can compete with a well managed trade monopoly. though obviously province ownership increases relative power which makes it feel more powerful overall.

[[PavorNoctis]]

lets say that i completely own any province in the Genoa trade node and have a 100%on it: I still steal all the trade from a couple immediate upstream nodes like Alexandria. now. in this hipotethical scenario where no enemy fleet will ever steal my power, but where i badly need a reliable influence upstream, are markets like 1 no effect / 2 effect but not worth it/ 3___? I have this dilemma, solvable solely trough the precise knowldege of the mechanics involved, because its wort/not pretty much depend on what are you playing

[RCMidas]

Utterly unworth it. The game will be long over by the time the cost of building the market is repaid by the increased profit in the upstream node.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by PavorNoctis:

now. in this hipotethical scenario where no enemy fleet will ever steal my power, but where i badly need a reliable influence upstream...

Conquer upstream. Let trade guide your expansion. It is the fastest, strongest, guaranteed way to wealth and power in EU4.

[Sharpie The Dragon]

Building markets is almost never worth it. The only reason I can see is if you plan to leave a node unconquered for a long time while still somewhat wanting their trade; In EU4 not conquering upstream is a big no no.