Muscovy start help + some general questions

[YaRUS]

Hi guys, I get back to EU4 after quite some time and decided to play Muscovy. I bought 3rd Rome and Cossacks dlc's. I played a while ago so kind of overwhelmed by a lot of new things in the game. I watched a couple of general and Muscovy specific guides but still have some questions. So sorry for asking maybe something obvious but still.

1. Muscovy's first idea and vassals.

So I watched a lot about Vassal feed tactics. And everywhere I saw this, it was told that Muscovy/Russia is a great country for this tactic. In some of the conversations on forums, I read a discussion regarding first possible ideas for Moscuvy and it was said that it is great to pick Influence first since Muscovy has a lot of vassals from the very beginning and vassal feed tactic works well with Muscovy in general. I think I am missing here something. Why Influence is viable as a very first idea? By the time I get + income and Diplo integration discount bonuses, my initial vassals are already integrated. So the Influence idea is definitely NOT to gain more value from initial vassals but from future ones. Am I right here?

And in such case why it is viable to pick Influence as the first one? The religious idea seems to be much better since when you get missionary conversion bonus it is exactly the timing when you are ready to expand to hordes (Golden Horde, Kazan and further). If delaying Religious idea to second or even third order - you will have a lot of troubles with National unrest due to bad religion unity. Another disadvantage of Influence idea as a first - in most of my games I see that Muscovy's leaders are better at admin and military but bad in diplo points. So you don't have that much diplo points to spend on Influence idea.

The same thought process seems to be correct for Administrative idea as a first idea group. By the time you get coring discount you already integrated Novgorod and most likely Golden Horde and Kazan. It is still viable to get this discount since you'll continue expansion to Lithuania and all over the place but that doesn't seem to help in the very beginning.

2. Vassal feed tactics details.

So regarding vassal feed tactics on Muscovy. Usually, as a Muscovy, your first move will be to declare war on Novgorod. As a result of this war, you can get a lot of lands and usually it is advised to get everything on Sweden/Norway border to isolate Novgorod to be able to eat it in later wars. So the question here - does it make sense to give these lands to your vassals? Should I give only those lands which are treated as cores to my vassals? Or I can give them any land and they would core it? It seems to be viable to save admin points in the very beginning so you could rush to the first idea group but from another perspective, I don't really understand if it is viable to feed Muscovy's vassals in the very beginning since you want to boost your own economy. The best start for Muscovy would be to war against Novgorod, Tver, Ryazan and Odoev. In terms of vassal feed - you could give Tver to Rostov, annex Ryzan and Odoev so hordes wouldn't get it, and feed some Novgorod's land to Pskov, Beloozero and Perm. The thing is - I don't understand if it actually makes sense or it is better just to annex all these lands. I also saw interesting things on some stream - as a result of war with Ryazan, player annexed only 2 provinces (from total 4) with the same religion and culture but he could annex all. I don't understand this move at all. Horde has claims on lands player left for Ryazan and they most likely would come for them.

3. Institutions tactics as Muscovy.

This mechanic is completely new to me. So feudalism is already present on Muscovy's lands which is good. But starting from 1450 Renaissance institution start to appear in the world. If I won't do anything, then this institution would appear in my capital (Moscow) only at 1529 which is a huge tech penalty. I saw on some guides that you could use development to improve institution on your country and Embrace institution quicker. I tried this and was able to do so but I feel that I am wasting so much monarch points on this which put we behind in tech a lot which is very week position at the beginning of the game when each military tech means a lot. So I have 3 questions here: a) when it is viable to use development to embrace Renaissance as Moscovy? b) How exactly I should do it? Should I invest only in my capital (Moscow) or I should split development points among different provinces? Should I invest only admin/Diplo points or I should put here everything I have? c) Should I take loans to be able to Embrace the institution if I am short on ducats? When it is viable?

4. Estates tactics as Muscovy

This is also a new mechanic to me. As a Muscovy, it looks like I should decrease the influence of Boyar estate since it too high from the very beginning (80%) which can be done by some events usually. The questions I have here are the following: a) Is it possible to keep everyone happy or I should focus on 1-2 estates and keep others on yellow stats (neutral). b) I don't feel like I can demand some help from estates (admin, mill points, money) because it will always put them in red which I don't want. How you guys demand help from estates and keep them happy? c) How to properly split land among estates? How much % rate should each estate have to be happy? How much % I should keep for myself? Which land should I give to which estate? In some guides, it was told to give trade nodes to Burgers so for Muscovy it could be Novgorod, Kholmogory (or White sea, don't remember) and Kazan? Steppes should be given to cossacks (except provinces with gold) - how much of them?

5. Patriarch authority, icons, and Defender of the faith.

This one should be easier.

a) When it is viable to spend 10% authority on an icon? There are really good ones for institution spread and embracement discount + for manpower and national unrest. It is obvious that you could spend when you have 100% authority but is it viable to use authority early in the game?

b) When it is viable to pick Defender of the faith? I can get it really fast by taking money from Novgorod and Hordes. It gives really nice bonuses but +5% tech cost and possible early wars while there are many independent orthodox countries in the game, seems to be too dangerous. Looks like it is viable when you form Russia and there are no far orthodox states which you have to protect. Am I right?

6. State edicts

Again, new mechanics for me. When it is viable to use edicts? That might help with institution spread and embracement but how exactly and when I should do it? Should I do it only for capital before trying to embrace institution or it is useful for different provinces?

That's all for now. Sorry for newbie questions if they are so but please guide me thru these.

[YaRUS]

Thanks for more tips!

And what about Trade Power edict? It might be viable to use in Novgorod, Kholmogory and Kazan trade centers? What do you think?

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Originally posted by YaRUS:

Thanks for more tips!

And what about Trade Power edict? It might be viable to use in Novgorod, Kholmogory and Kazan trade centers? What do you think?

That really depends.
Increased Trade Power does not (directly)* increase the total Trade Value, only how the existing value is distributed.

(The following is not tested, just guessing)
Russian Nodes start very poor (compared to e.g. German Nodes) and will probably stay poor for a long time until you can steer from Samarkand etc or get additional money from Siberia's fur and metals.
The increased State Maintenance (when applying the Trade Edict in non Capital States) may be bigger than the increased money you get from it.


*) Increased Trade Power can indirectly increase Trade Value in some cases. A high TP in a node X increases TP in its upstream nodes and therefore more money is steered towards X (assuming you steer in the downstream nodes and they have more than one exit).

[bri]

Originally posted by tonypa:

Originally posted by YaRUS:

5. Remove investments from castles to save money

I would completely destroy both forts in Mozhaisk and Nizny Novgorod.

Agreed on Mozhaisk, I usually keep the one in Nizhny until after taking Kazan but it spends a lot of time moth-balled.

Other comments on the list of things to do-

1) move the merchant from Kazan to Astrakhan (steering to Kazan)
2) as mentioned above, destroy the fort in Mozhaisk
3) make your lousy starting ruler a general and assign him to an army so he'll hopefully die quickly (his wife is better than him not to mention his son)
4) option-get rid of the admin national focus: you really can't afford to fall behind on mil tech (and you could easily end up with a couple unexpected subjects even if you don't intentionally vassal Odoyev)

[Shai-Hulud]

I've had defensive edict really help out more than once. If you really need one of your forts to hold out, or want to keep an enemy army occupied in that spot, this edict is capable of really stretching out sieges.

Particularly if you go defensive ideas, the attrition numbers start to really pile up.

[MnM Ondreyson]

Originally posted by tonypa:

-Institutions for Muscovy-

There are 6 more Institutions after Feudalism:
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Institutions
Most of them will ALWAYS spawn in western europe, from the initial spawn province they start to crawl slowly into neighbouring provinces. This can take literally centuries to reach furthest countries like Japan.

The best way to gain every institution early is to own land near western europe. For Muscovy this means expanding into Asia will be easier as the countries east from you will be usually even more behind in tech. But you actually want to own province toward western europe to get institutions spread into your land faster. One good spot is Baltic, since Institutions can spread over the Baltic Sea from Germany. Another area is Crimea as Ottomans usually get all the institutions early too.

Now that is how institutions spread normally, from one province to neighbouring province and once neighbour reaches 100% to all of the neighbours again. However, you can also get them anywhere in the world by manually developing a province. This is speacially useful for rich countries far away from Europe, like India and China.

So, to start manually spawning institution, you want to pick province in the middle of your country with lowest development cost
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Development#Stacking_development_cost_modifiers
Does not have to be capital, any province you own will work. Use Production >> development tab to find lowest cost province. Next you start to Develop this one province over and over, spend any monarch point type you have, all will advance toward institution same way. Once the Institution in this one province reaches 100% it will start to spread into neighbouring provinces too. And you will have very high development province as bonus. There is no point to develop more provinces once you already have institution in your country.

I don't bother manually spawning institution unless I am starting to reach 50% tech penalty from it and it is nowhere nearby ready to spread into my lands. As Muscovy/Russia you are not too far from western europe but you are also not close enough to simply wait it spread normally. Depending on your situation you may want to manually spawn some and wait out others. Again, best way to reach institutions early is to own land in western europe.

Actually, unless Im specifically in central EU/Italy, I pretty much ALWAYS dev for the first 3 institutions, even as close as poland.

After 5500 hours, Ive found its the most effective way to do things. It gives you a lovely high dev province that will massively increase your income in the beginning of the game, and lets you spawn institutions and embrace them years before most of your neighbors, giving a fairly large tech/innovative advantage.

The further from EU you are, the bigger this advantage will be. Its quite normal to be 4 techs ahead in india doing this.

[YaRUS]

Originally posted by bri:

1) move the merchant from Kazan to Astrakhan (steering to Kazan)

Could you please provide more details on this? I don't think I understand the purpose of this move. I think in the very beginning it is optimal to Collect Trade in Novgorod and steer Trade from Kiev to Novgorod, isn't it?

Originally posted by bri:

4) option-get rid of the admin national focus: you really can't afford to fall behind on mil tech (and you could easily end up with a couple unexpected subjects even if you don't intentionally vassal Odoyev)

I would like to discuss this a little bit more too. In my current game where I am trying to play thru vassals by feeding Novgorod lands to Pskov/Beloozero and Tverian lands to Rostov + Vassalizing Ryazan. I picked the Influence idea as the first idea group. And I found myself lacking Diplo points to keep up with Diplo tech + Get Influence idea bonuses + Annexing vassals. As for Admin and Military tech, I am ahead of time currently so I am starting to collect these points and most likely I will use them to develop province for Institution. I am thinking right now about switching focus to Diplo points until I'll be able to complete Influence idea + Keep up in Diplo tech. Otherwise, my Diplo tech will be far behind Admin and Mill tech which will cost me some penalties as I read (not sure what penalties exactly though). So based on my experience with Muscovy (not a big one though), I can stay up to date or even ahead in Admin/Mill tech until the penalty for Renaissance will become a big problem. So my thought process here is that National Focus should be based on your First Idea group - If you pick Religious or Admin you should keep Admin focus and play thru vassals more to save Admin Points for Idea. If you pick Influence, then, most likely you would have to switch to Diplo focus and get more lands for yourself rather than feeding your initial vassals.

***

I have some more questions if you guys don't mind.

1. Institution spread bonus - does it apply for spread from provinces where institution already present or it also applied for provinces where institution just exists but not yet present (not 100%)? I am asking because based on that we could decide a better timing to pick Icon to improve institution spread.

2. Also regarding Renaissance - almost everywhere I read about development to get this institution for Muscovy it is told that we should develop our capital - Moscow. It is 17 development province and has a development cost discount since it is capital. But, in my current game, I am almost ready to invest to get institution and I am thinking about the easiest way to do this. I checked all provinces where Renaissance already exists - the province where the progress is the highest - Novgorod. It is 21 (or 23, don't remember) development province. So in Moscow, I currently have 17% Renaissance progress, and in Novgorod, I have 33%. So to me, it looks like if I invest into Novgorod I will be able to get institution quicker and spend fewer Monarch points since fewer development points required (need to do actual math here though to be sure). So the question here - is there any other reasons to develop my capital (Moscow) instead of Novgorod where Renaissance has better progress?

3. Can you guys provide me with more tips regarding naval usage for Muscovy? I don't really plan to go to the New World (maybe to Alaska in the later stages of the game). As Muscovy, I will be constantly fighting on land and all my enemies will be accessible via land so there is no urgent need to have a fleet. From another perspective, any war with European countries (Danemark, Sweden, Livonian Order are good examples) means that my ports will be under blockade. While it does not really hurt I wonder if it worth it to invest into the fleet at all while playing Muscovy. And in more details - when it might be worth it. And also, if it worth it, what is the best way to use your fleet? How to not make to much harm to my economy by having own fleet?

4. I found some ugly thing recently. In my old games (years ago) it was not possible to cross the border of the neutral country until you get Military access with this country. But I see that Denmark, Sweden, Norway armies are marching thru my lands to fight with Livonian order even though they didn't have Military Access to my land. Same for me - when I was at war with Golden Horde, I saw they were marching to my lands thru Lithuanian lands and I was also able to go there and even fight there without having Access. So the question is - how that was changed and what is the purpose of Military Access treaty now?

[tonypa]

1 - Institution will only start to spread to next province once it has reached 100%.

2 - You want to develop a province with lowest development cost. It can be capital, because capitals get lowered cost, but can be any other province too. To choose between Moscow and Novgorod, you need to consider how much it costs to raise development by 1, if in Moscow it will cost 50 points and in Novgorod 100 points, I would still go with Moscow. Even when it currently has lower progress %. You also want to get institution in the middle of your country so it can start to spread into every direction faster, having it spawn in the corner where it has only few neighbours is not greatest.

3 - I never bother to build ships as Muscovy/Russia. Or as other countries conquering large lands in Eurasia. You will not be able to use them during the war anyway against countries with Naval ideas (England, Denmark) because you simply have less of them, and also your ships are too weak and will be destroyed instantly.

4 - Military access is granted to EVERY country currently involved in same war as soon ONE country has asked access. So, in case of Lithuania, it does not matter if they granted access to you or the Horde or some small vassal, everyone can move through their lands as long the war goes on (and original asker does not cancel access). Same way, if you have granted access to even one country in war involving Sweden, Denmark, Norway and dozen more nations, all of them can move through your lands.

4a - Notice that the country first asking access, will use up one diplomatic slot for it. But everyone else gets access for free.

[Amtep]

Added note about military access: this also means that if you kick one enemy out of the war by making a separate peace, you may suddenly lose military access to unrelated countries. For example if some random HRE ally like Saxony had access to Lithuania, then it lets everyone else in the war walk around Lithuania... until Saxony peaces out. Then suddenly all your armies in Lithuania are exiled. This can really mess up your plans. You can use it to really mess up the AI's plans, too.

[YaRUS]

Thanks for your answer! It was really useful!

Originally posted by tonypa:

1 - Institution will only start to spread to next province once it has reached 100%.

So it means, that it doesn't make sense to use +Spread speed Edict and Icon before actually having at least 1 province where the required institution is already present (100%).

Have 2 additional questions for this topic:

1. Can I somehow change the speed of "natural" institutions spread in my country? Looking into Institutions map, I see that some provinces already have some progress on Renaissance institution while some others - don't. This will allow me to decrease the number of development points which I have to spend in order to put institution progress to 100%.

2. What the point of having institution spread in as many provinces as possible rather than having it in only 1 province which already allows you to Embrace this institution as Muscovy? Are there any bonuses or penalties for that?

Originally posted by tonypa:

2 - You want to develop a province with lowest development cost.

Yeah, figured that out! So what I did, I enabled dev cost discount Edict in my capital (Moscow) and compared dev cost after that. For Moscow, it was 35 or something like that and for Novgorod, it was 75. Novgorod was 21 development province and Moscow - 17. So it was obviously much-much cheaper to do this for Moscow even though Renaissance was more developed in Novgorod.

I feel that the Icon for DevCost discount is not worth it, though. It will help with developing province but after that, it will be almost useless for 20 years which is dumb. It might be useful later when you want to build a lot of buildings but I don't see this happening in the 15th century. I am hardly trying to complete the Land of Churches mission which requires to build 20 churches.

The Icon for Embracement discount and Speed bonus looks to be much better though. I think it is the best bet to be the second Icon pick after the first one was to improve Manpower recovery speed and Discipline.

Thanks for explaining Military Access! I think I better understand now how it works.

***

I have more questions regarding vassal feed :).

So in my current game, Golden Horde was sandwiched by Crimea, Kazan, and Nogai. They left with only 2 provinces. For one of them, Ryazan had claims, so that was used for Reconquest Casus Belly. I easily won the war and now it is time to figure out what to do with the Horde. I just annexed my vassal - Beloozero and now have a free vassal slot so it seems to be viable to vassalize Golden Horde instead of feeding it to Ryazan. The horde has a lot of claims around which could be used for Reconquest Casus Belly to eat Kazan and Nogai (with Crimea it will be difficult though since it is already a subject of Ottomans). The problem i have here is that Golden Horde is Sunni and has a different culture than mine. Sooner or later I want my vassals not only to core provinces I feed them, but also convert religion to Orthodox. I am not sure if it is possible to convert Golden Horde to Orthodox. So the questions is which decision is better here? Just feed both Horde's provinces to Ryazan so they could be converted later or vassalize Golden Horde to use it for conquering hordes?

Another question is regarding the Livonian Order. I don't have shared border with it so I can't fabricate claims to it by myself. I read somewhere that my vassals could fabricate claims for me. So is it possible to somehow ask my vassal Pskov to fabricate claim to Livonian Order so I could use it as a Casus Belly?

[tonypa]

Originally posted by YaRUS:

So it means, that it doesn't make sense to use +Spread speed Edict and Icon before actually having at least 1 province where the required institution is already present (100%).

Have 2 additional questions for this topic:

1. Can I somehow change the speed of "natural" institutions spread in my country? Looking into Institutions map, I see that some provinces already have some progress on Renaissance institution while some others - don't. This will allow me to decrease the number of development points which I have to spend in order to put institution progress to 100%.

2. What the point of having institution spread in as many provinces as possible rather than having it in only 1 province which already allows you to Embrace this institution as Muscovy? Are there any bonuses or penalties for that?

I am sorry, I do not use Edicts, someone with more knowledge about that hopefully knows.

1 - each institution has different spread modifiers:
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Institutions
For example Reneissance spreads naturally into every province in Flanders, Tuscany, or Venice area. Or European province with at least 10 development. While Global Trade starts to spread naturally into every level 2 or 3 Center of Trade (one of few institutions to spread fast to all over the world).

2 - To embrace institution it needs to be present in provinces making up at least 10% of your total country development. For larger countries, 1 province is usually not enough. Tho I never develop manually once it is present in 1 province already.

[tonypa]

Originally posted by YaRUS:

I just annexed my vassal - Beloozero and now have a free vassal slot so it seems to be viable to vassalize Golden Horde instead of feeding it to Ryazan. The horde has a lot of claims around which could be used for Reconquest Casus Belly to eat Kazan and Nogai ...

Another question is regarding the Livonian Order. I don't have shared border with it so I can't fabricate claims to it by myself. I read somewhere that my vassals could fabricate claims for me. So is it possible to somehow ask my vassal Pskov to fabricate claim to Livonian Order so I could use it as a Casus Belly?

Yes, I would use Golden Horde as vassal and reconquest their claims. You should be able to manage their Liberty Desire too with some ideas and developing their lands.

No, you can not ask your vassal to fabricate claims. However, let's look at the Espionage idea group - idea 5 "Claim Fabrication" - May fabricate claims for subjects. You build spy network up and then use your spy network to grant claim to your vassal.


ok, now the difficult problem of converting religion by your subjects. Converting religion requires now 2 modifiers - Missionary Strength must be high enough while Missionary Maintenance should be low enough. Your subjects most likely have neither, they probably do not have high enough strength because they rarely use Religious ideas, and AI will never start to convert province if the cost is too high. The result, as far I can see in current version of the game, is that your subjects will never convert religion.

This means forcing Horde to be Orthodox is fairly pointless, they will hate you for it, get high LD but will never convert anything. Just use their reconquest claims, integrate once time allows and start to convert yourself.

[YaRUS]

I think it is time to summarize again the most viable starting moves list for Muscovy :).

The most viable starting moves for Muscovy

1. Hire x3 +1 advisors.
2. Concentrate Metropolicy in 3 states (gives +15% patriarch authority)
3. Request for Clergy support to get +5 Patriarch Authority and improve Clergy loyalty.
4. Pick rivals: Kazan, Golden Horde, Novgorod
5. Remove 2 castles in Mozhaysk and Nizhniy Novgorod to reduce maintenance
6. Remove investments from castles to save even more money
7. Remove investments from army maintenance to get crazy on money
8. Send insult to Novgorod (to get a bonus to power projection)
9. Set Trade Embargo to rivals (Kazan, Golden Horde, Novgorod) (to get a bonus to power projection)
10. Royal Marriage all your vassals
11. Improve Relations with Pskov (since no Royal Marriage available)
12. Move merchant from Kazan to Astrakhan (steering to Kazan)
13. Make ruler a general so your both armies would have one.
14. Get +100 admin points from Boyars (nobles) and do +15 loyalty action after that
15. Get +Ducats (or dip points) from Burgers and do +loyalty action
16. Get +100 military points from cossacks and do +loyalty action
17. OPTIONAL: Pick St. Michael icon to get bonuses (+Manpower Recovery, +Discipline)

I still need to check item #12 regarding moving merchant from Kazan to Astrakhan - I really not sure that this one is the most efficient. I think the most one was to collect in Novgorod and steer from Kiev.

I removed "Optional" label from estates interactions (14,15,16) since I think now it is really viable to do these all. Only the Icon pick seems to be "Optional".

[bri]

Originally posted by Amtep:

Added note about military access: this also means that if you kick one enemy out of the war by making a separate peace, you may suddenly lose military access to unrelated countries. For example if some random HRE ally like Saxony had access to Lithuania, then it lets everyone else in the war walk around Lithuania... until Saxony peaces out. Then suddenly all your armies in Lithuania are exiled. This can really mess up your plans. You can use it to really mess up the AI's plans, too.

In theory, however there has been a bug with that system in recent patches where the ai nations DON'T lose their access to those areas while the player does. I'm not sure if this has been fixed yet but it's fairly annoying if it hasn't.


If you have access to the diplomatic feedback tab (right-most of the tabs available in the diplomacy screen) you can mark provinces as being of interest to you. If your vassals are friendly to you they will fabricate claims on such provinces. They will also generically fabricate on nations you have set as rivals. That screen also lets you set your attitude towards different nations to friendly, hostile, etc. rather than leaving it as the default (which is determined by what the ai would do if they were you).

As for your questions on my day 1 advice...

1) Move merchant from Kazan to Astrakhan-there are two factors to consider here

a) Collecting in Novgorod the merchant will add 2 trade power and a boost to earned income, however, having the merchant steering will add a 10% trade power modifier in Novgorod which will result in notably more trade power so you'll get a bigger cut of the pie (as long as you have no merchant collecting in any other node).

b) Normally only Kazan will be steering the value of Astrakhan towards Kazan which means the bulk of the value gets taken to Crimea instead. Over time you'll be eating Kazan which further weakens it until 100% of the value bypasses you and goes to your enemies. With only two merchants available for quite some time your best placement as Russia is Kiev and Astrakhan to maximize the incoming value for Novgorod. You'll primarily use conquest to increase your share there by booting everyone else out and then weakening the propogation from the Baltic/White Sea nodes.

If you eventually become dominant in the Crimea & Kiev nodes then moving the merchant from Astrakhan to Crimea will be your best move but that is well down the line

4) consider removing admin focus-as you have discovered, the -1/month on dip points in particular can be problematic for you in the long term. This becomes an even bigger issue if you make an early Odoyev grab or get a random PU over one of the minors pushing you over your relation limit. Your starting ruler is also weak militarily (with the starting admin focus he is functionally a 5/0/1) which can leave you behind in that regard if he lives a good long life and that is really bad as in the early game you are surrounded by people that hate you, aren't all that much smaller than you, and love a good dog piling. If things go even a little bit wrong for you the result can be wars with all 4 of your neighbors at once. Being ahead (or at least equivalent) on mil tech is a key factor in keeping ai attacks at bay. It also gives you a bit of a cushion so when you hit admin 7 you can quickly grab a couple of mil ideas without having to worry about falling behind



Other subjects:

Check your vassal interactions tab to see if enforce religion is available to you. If so then you'll be able to force subjects of any religion to convert to yours. At the moment the ai is pretty bad at converting provinces but at the very least you'll get the bonus to integration for them being your religion and if you can convert their provinces you'll be able to take advantage of the provinces being their culture rather than being hit with a wrong culture penalty after you annex them. Vassalize the GH, conversions just cost money, conquests without cores cost AE...

naval stuff: personally for Russia it's almost entirely trade ships with orders to go home at war, usually in both the Novgorod and Crimea nodes but Crimea may well wait if the Ottomans get the annoying event...

[MnM Ondreyson]

Originally posted by tonypa:

Originally posted by YaRUS:

So it means, that it doesn't make sense to use +Spread speed Edict and Icon before actually having at least 1 province where the required institution is already present (100%).

Have 2 additional questions for this topic:

1. Can I somehow change the speed of "natural" institutions spread in my country? Looking into Institutions map, I see that some provinces already have some progress on Renaissance institution while some others - don't. This will allow me to decrease the number of development points which I have to spend in order to put institution progress to 100%.

2. What the point of having institution spread in as many provinces as possible rather than having it in only 1 province which already allows you to Embrace this institution as Muscovy? Are there any bonuses or penalties for that?

I am sorry, I do not use Edicts, someone with more knowledge about that hopefully knows.

1 - each institution has different spread modifiers:
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Institutions
For example Reneissance spreads naturally into every province in Flanders, Tuscany, or Venice area. Or European province with at least 10 development. While Global Trade starts to spread naturally into every level 2 or 3 Center of Trade (one of few institutions to spread fast to all over the world).

2 - To embrace institution it needs to be present in provinces making up at least 10% of your total country development. For larger countries, 1 province is usually not enough. Tho I never develop manually once it is present in 1 province already.

Tonypa, you need to start using edicts, even just in passing. Youre severely handicapping yourself.



OP: 33% institution spread edicts do just what they say. If you have an institution spreading at ALL in a province(aka growing there), the edict will effect it. You dont need one at 100%, unless the institution isnt growing before its fully present in a province.

You also always use the 10% dev cost edict for institution spawning. You dont just find the lowest cost province. You find the lowest cost province with the best SUITABLE land. You might have a forest with the lowest cost, and have a farm/grassland thats just a little bit higher dev/cost. Dev the farm/grassland. The forest/hill/steppe/whatever has a penalty to dev cost, that will end up making it more expensive to dev up vs the slightly higher cost grassland/forest/whatever.

Always choose your most efficient provinces for institution spawning.

If you have more questions, feel free to drop by my channel(through my steam profile), Im live almost every day, and if I cant help my community can. With as much time as Ive spent in the game, there are very few things you can ask that we cant answer.

[YaRUS]

Hey guys, I am ready to pick the second idea group and start thinking about it.

Options I see:

1. Religious - for Deus Vault

2. Humanists - converting is too expensive while Humanists can also handle unrest and help with other perks.

3. Defensive - I almost ready to start fighting with Sweden/Danemark so this group might be very useful.

What are your thoughts on that especially comparing Religius vs Humanists for Muscovy/Russia?