Is Parliamentarism worth it?

[LilTaco]

It sounds like a lot of people pick Parliament, but I’d hate to lose the +1 military MP from nobility and the ability to call diet. In your opinion what’s the best choice?

[Lasagna]

in the current multiplayer meta Parliament is a absolute deathtrap that is so bad that picking it as a nation that doesn't start with it (england) is considered intentional trolling.

It's decent for niche RP tall singleplayer England/GB games, and that's it, still wouldn't actually pick it as any other nation.

The main benefit of parliament is basically cancelled out by diets, losing the nobility estate not only loses you the +1 mil power (which is mil tech, mil ideas, and most importantly manpower development), it loses you the privilege that gives you up to 100% more manpower in exchange for a tiny amount of tax (nerfed to 25% manpower next patch, still will be a must have for multiplayer).

the reduced absolutism almost isn't even that bad compared to the rest of it's problems, but it still forces you into jumping through hoops to do court and country just to get even with other monarchies.

seriously don't take it if you have any other option.

[Rodi]

It bade. Nobility has too many nice Privileges. More importantly estate Missions guarantee permanently loyal burghers, which you also need for devcost
The only really goid part about parliament is permanent 10% devcost

[grotaclas]

I think the parliament is good in single-player campaigns in which you desperately need more of one of the things which it can give you and you have no other way of getting it.
The most notable of these are:

• +1 missionary, +1% missionary strength is very useful for a one-faith
  
• -15% diplomatic annexation cost. This can be extremely powerful if it brings you to 0% diplo annexation cost(the cap is 0.1 dip points per stated dev) or close to it. I did a campaign in which I was able to integrate a 1.3k dev Ming in less than a year
  
• −15% Culture conversion cost for a one-culture
  
• +1 Colonists, +20 Global settler increase

Originally posted by βumbleδ-626:

the reduced absolutism almost isn't even that bad compared to the rest of it's problems, but it still forces you into jumping through hoops to do court and country just to get even with other monarchies.

Parliamentarism doesn't reduce absolutism. Only the english monarchy does that.

[Mad Doctor]

One of the reasons why I find it it impossible to play as England is precisely that. IF Leviathan was named after Hobbes' book, maybe something may be changed. Wait and see, I guess.

Losing the Call Diet and nobility estate really is a costly change. The way parliaments work is from before the estates were reworked, so changes may come.

So far, I advise against it.

[Azunai]

by the time you get to the tier 5 reform your country should be fairly well established already.

in my opinion the 1MP per month is a bigger deal early on. a century into the game i usually don't struggle to keep up with mil tech at all even if i somehow get stuck with a ruler with low mil mana.

losing the call diet option is kinda unfortunate, but as the country expands, some of the rewards from the diets become a bit lackluster anyway. not getting +1 free dev from building a manufactory somewhere isn't going to make or break a 1000 dev country.

[bri]

-15% diplomatic annexation cost. This can be extremely powerful if it brings you to 0% diplo annexation cost(the cap is 0.1 dip points per stated dev) or close to it. I did a campaign in which I was able to integrate a 1.3k dev Ming in less than a year

I know about the -45% from influence/admin ideas, where is the rest coming from? Also, losing the two diplo slots from the nobility hurts the vassal feed/integrate playstyle almost as much as the chance for the cheaper integrations helps IMO.

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Some Mission Rewards give permanent -10% (Hungary, Savoy/Sa-Pi), -15% (Bohemia) or -20% (Provence), the Generic Missions have -15% for 25 years.
Some nations have -15% in their NIs (but none of those that have permanent Dip Annex Cost from Missions).
A Custom Nation can have up to -20%.

I think there is an events which gives -Dip Annex Cost but I may be wrong. (With a quick search I only found an Influence Ideas event which gives "negative" +Dip Annex Cost)


So Admin/Influence + NIs + Mission reward + Parliament could be at -90%.


Edit: Found it: The Loyal Subjects event gives -15% for 5 years.

[Rodi]

Originally posted by Azunai:

by the time you get to the tier 5 reform your country should be fairly well established already.

in my opinion the 1MP per month is a bigger deal early on. a century into the game i usually don't struggle to keep up with mil tech at all even if i somehow get stuck with a ruler with low mil mana.

losing the call diet option is kinda unfortunate, but as the country expands, some of the rewards from the diets become a bit lackluster anyway. not getting +1 free dev from building a manufactory somewhere isn't going to make or break a 1000 dev country.

Mil points never lose value lmao.
In proper mp games the primary directive of your country building is the generation of mil points so you can use your stacked devcost reduction to dev as cheap as possible. And you dev throughout the entire campaign, especially around the time monarchies unlock their tier 5

[Spude]

Originally posted by βumbleδ-626:

-stuff-

EU4 multiplayer in nutshell: take Quality, Economic and Quantity as first idea groups, turbodev gold provinces if you have 'em, stack manpower modifiers.

[Mad Doctor]

Reminder: nothing I say applies to multiplaying.

[Azunai]

Originally posted by Rodi:

Mil points never lose value lmao.
...

noone mentioned anything about MP. lmao ololo rofl

[grotaclas]

Originally posted by bri:

I know about the -45% from influence/admin ideas, where is the rest coming from? Also, losing the two diplo slots from the nobility hurts the vassal feed/integrate playstyle almost as much as the chance for the cheaper integrations helps IMO.

In my game I started as provence, got -20% diplomatic annexation cost from their mission King of Kings[eu4.paradoxwikis.com], -10% from the Sardinia-Piedmont mission Union with Naples[eu4.paradoxwikis.com], and formed Austria for the -15% from their national ideas. The missions all give permanent modifiers.
I think in this rather extreme playthrough the extra diplomatic annexation cost was better than the nobility privilege, because it saved time and reduced the micromanagement of when to start integrating. The dip points didn't matter in the end, because the Imperial Austrian Monarchy[eu4.paradoxwikis.com] gives +2 Monarch diplomatic skill.

Edit: fixed quotes

[BoiledInPilk]

Parliament also allows you to give seats to provinces, boosting their tax and production output by 10% which is nice. From my experience I think parliament overall is a slight downgrade, however it feels more like a sidegrade. You can get a bunch of manpower from the draft, stability and manpower from support the war effort, extra trade efficiency, lower land maintenance. The loss of the diplo slots, and passive manpower is the trade off however. You also get all of the nobility crownland when the reform is passed so that is nice (I wonder what happens if you remove the privilege, perhaps thats a way to farm crownland.)