I still dont understand ottoman manpower....

[BGR]

I feel like sometimes the ottomans just cant run out of manpower.

Usually I declare on someone when they have a smaller army and low manpower, in my case (Hungary 1580) ottomans (anatolia and greece with some mashriq) had 100k troops and 0 manpower to my 120k with 150k manpower. Roughly a year in and the ottomans have 310k troops with 120k manpower, even after losing 100k already. So thats nearly 500k troops they have pulled from thin air. I was also winning 95% of battles since 20% discipline and morale advantage.

Slacken standards? Perhaps, but only for a small amount, as this was 1580 and only with 100% would they have been able to acheive that, and from their constant warring i doubt they had high professionalism.

I know a lot of people say the ottoman AI cheats but 500k manpower seems like a stretch.

Just to clarify I got f*cked, with over 1 million dead from both sides. It was a weak ottomans vs large hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Milan and bohemia (240k) overall.

I dont think the ottomans are difficult to beat as Id already won 2 wars against them, its just when it comes to attrition I can never seem to win against them

[grotaclas]

How many of these troops were regular troops and how many were mercenaries? Mercenaries don't need manpower and the Ottomans could have many large mercenary stacks within reach in 1580.

[BGR]

Originally posted by grotaclas:

How many of these troops were regular troops and how many were mercenaries? Mercenaries don't need manpower and the Ottomans could have many large mercenary stacks within reach in 1580.

Forgot to mention, they recruited 2 companies equalling around 50k, one was free company and one was Kurds

[ArchiV]

they can merc, cause of good eco
they can drill then take manpower from professionalism, cause good eco
and they have janissaries, an infantry u dont pay with money and manpower, but mil mana (1 janissary for 10 mil mana)
otto stronk

[Raider Deci]

Keep track of their army professionalism during a war in the ledger. Each slack-click is worth 5% professionalism and gives everyone a cood amount of mampower relative to maximum pool (so for ottomans alot) , same for the ai.

Personally I think slacken recruitment is in dire need of a cooldown, a year maybe, and some other cost (maybe - 10 legitimacy)

[grotaclas]

Originally posted by ArchiV:

and they have janissaries, an infantry u dont pay with money and manpower, but mil mana (1 janissary for 10 mil mana)

Janissaries are a good point. Do you happen to know if they give manpower back when they get stackwiped like normal troops do?

Another thing which came to my mind is that the Ottomans might have had many troops in the building queue when you saw them with 0 manpower.

[Marquoz]

The OP should really read "I still don't understand manpower" and leave out the word "Ottoman." The Ottomans play the same game you do by the same rules, with the minor exceptions of the few, very well documented AI cheats. So does every AI nation. Players who don't understand mercs, slackening recruiting standards, and special troops like Streltsy and Janissaries think the AI "pulls troops from thin air," but they never do. They click the same buttons you can click as whatever nation is causing you trouble.

[BGR]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

The OP should really read "I still don't understand manpower" and leave out the word "Ottoman." The Ottomans play the same game you do by the same rules, with the minor exceptions of the few, very well documented AI cheats. So does every AI nation. Players who don't understand mercs, slackening recruiting standards, and special troops like Streltsy and Janissaries think the AI "pulls troops from thin air," but they never do. They click the same buttons you can click as whatever nation is causing you trouble.

Yeah and I literally explain everything you said. 450k without mercs in 1580 when ottomans had only 23% professionalism. I wouldnt have posted it if I didnt think it was bs

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by grumpygorilla44:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

The OP should really read "I still don't understand manpower" and leave out the word "Ottoman." The Ottomans play the same game you do by the same rules, with the minor exceptions of the few, very well documented AI cheats. So does every AI nation. Players who don't understand mercs, slackening recruiting standards, and special troops like Streltsy and Janissaries think the AI "pulls troops from thin air," but they never do. They click the same buttons you can click as whatever nation is causing you trouble.

Yeah and I literally explain everything you said. 450k without mercs in 1580 when ottomans had only 23% professionalism. I wouldnt have posted it if I didnt think it was bs

Except you literally did NOT explain everything. Where are Janissaries in your post? Nowhere.

If you'd been fighting Russia, you would have had the same experience, but Streltsy would have been responsible. You don't know the various countries and the perfectly legitimate systems they use, systems you can use as well when you play them.

[BGR]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by grumpygorilla44:

Yeah and I literally explain everything you said. 450k without mercs in 1580 when ottomans had only 23% professionalism. I wouldnt have posted it if I didnt think it was bs

Except you literally did NOT explain everything. Where are Janissaries in your post? Nowhere.

If you'd been fighting Russia, you would have had the same experience, but Streltsy would have been responsible. You don't know the various countries and the perfectly legitimate systems they use, systems you can use as well when you play them.

Ottos had 5/6 balkan provinces. And to my knowledge jannisaries can only be recruited from heathen provinces so. Also i am playing on hard difficulty if that makes any difference.

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by grumpygorilla44:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Except you literally did NOT explain everything. Where are Janissaries in your post? Nowhere.

If you'd been fighting Russia, you would have had the same experience, but Streltsy would have been responsible. You don't know the various countries and the perfectly legitimate systems they use, systems you can use as well when you play them.

Ottos had 5/6 balkan provinces. And to my knowledge jannisaries can only be recruited from heathen provinces so. Also i am playing on hard difficulty if that makes any difference.

Yes it does make a difference. They have more than usual. Other tjan that they are very rich with ideas that increase forcelimit, add full quantity on it and you arrive somewhere in that ballpark

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by grumpygorilla44:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Except you literally did NOT explain everything. Where are Janissaries in your post? Nowhere.

If you'd been fighting Russia, you would have had the same experience, but Streltsy would have been responsible. You don't know the various countries and the perfectly legitimate systems they use, systems you can use as well when you play them.

Ottos had 5/6 balkan provinces. And to my knowledge jannisaries can only be recruited from heathen provinces so. Also i am playing on hard difficulty if that makes any difference.

Certainly it makes a difference. "Hard" gives the AI significant bonuses, as you should have known when you selected it. Not mentioning the non-standard difficulty level in your OP is a huge oversight. When you combine "Hard" with mercs, slackening recruiting standards, and Janisssaries, you get exactly what happened.

Every time someone comes to the forums to complain about the AI cheating, what's really happening is that it plays the game better than they do. The AI is not cheating. The player is unskilled.

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Certainly it makes a difference. "Hard" gives the AI significant bonuses, as you should have known when you selected that difficulty level. To not mention the non-standard difficulty level in your OP is a huge oversight. When you combine "Hard" with mercs, slackening recruiting standards, and Janisssaries, you get exactly what happened.

Every time someone comes to the forums to complain about AI cheats, what's really happening is that it plays the game better than they do. The AI is not cheating. The player is unskilled.

Yea why even choose if not reading up on the bonuses for the ai and not knowing how the mechanics fully work?

His Ottoman here also problaby just has a good game going. It happens, good for them.

[BGR]

Originally posted by Raider Deci:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Certainly it makes a difference. "Hard" gives the AI significant bonuses, as you should have known when you selected that difficulty level. To not mention the non-standard difficulty level in your OP is a huge oversight. When you combine "Hard" with mercs, slackening recruiting standards, and Janisssaries, you get exactly what happened.

Every time someone comes to the forums to complain about AI cheats, what's really happening is that it plays the game better than they do. The AI is not cheating. The player is unskilled.

Yea why even choose if not reading up on the bonuses for the ai and not knowing how the mechanics fully work?

His Ottoman here also problaby just has a good game going. It happens, good for them.

Hard isnt difficult for me and I only play it when im playing nations that are quite easy to play like Hungary. I got mad because this was the most successful one ive ever had with potential for WC. Ottomans did take quantity with their manpower idea and actually had a lot more coptic provinces in georgia so thats probably where the jannisaries came from. So id say that I just got stacked with bad circumstances, aswell as some manpower events for ottos. They also did next to no sieging since I was pushing them back so.

Sorry all

[Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia]

Don't forget that the AI will fight to the death over a couple of small provinces, taking loans and such. You may have lost the current war but the Ottomans might be in a worse situation now as a result, and that can be exploited later.

[BGR]

Originally posted by Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia:

Don't forget that the AI will fight to the death over a couple of small provinces, taking loans and such. You may have lost the current war but the Ottomans might be in a worse situation now as a result, and that can be exploited later.

Yeah. I picked up the game again and they just went bankrupt and lost iraq to persia. I guess they beat me to a white peace by a slither