ARE YU F*** KIDDING?

[TheSeigneur1]

Playing as Bavaria, I managed to reunify the country. I declared the country of Bavaria.
IMMEDIATELY WHOLE of EUROPE joins a coallition against me and I get crushed by the combined forces of all of the map!
The unification of Bavaria is a historic fact, are oyu kidding me!?!

[Malvastor]

Did you conquer any provinces immediately before hitting the 'Form Bavaria' decision? According to the event info on the wiki, the decision itself doesn't trigger any aggressive expansion. So I'm guessing what happened (feel free to correct me on the details) is that you finished a war, took the provinces necessary to form Bavaria, and hit the formation decision. But you didn't notice how much AE you'd pick up from taking those provinces, and the coalition was already getting ready to form- it would have happened whether or not you formed Bavaria.

Pay closer attention to your AE with nearby countries, especially when playing in Italy or the HRE. And make use of vassals or PUs to lessen your AE- sometimes it's better to force a country into being a subject, and annex them later on.

[Vetgirig on Linux]

If you take them as vassal instead of forcing a PU on them you will get a coalition. There is a event that give you a PU CB on the other nations with the provinces needed to form Bavaria.

[Marquoz]

Every nation needs to pay close attention to aggressive expansion and coalition formation. Nations in the HRE have to move even more carefully because there are additional penalties there. It's easy to generate coalitions you can't withstand if you don't know what you're doing. I recommend gaining aggressive expansion experience with much easier nations (like the Ottomans or Portugal) before trying an HRE game.

[volbound1700]

Everyone stole my thunder, I got burned recently in a MP region as Brandenburg by a major Coalition even though I only took one province. It can burn you.

I do think the game needs to be modified to only favor Coalitions against the top 8 great power (keep it for others but make it a lot less to form). Coalitions are very inconsistent in this game and rarely done effectively (targeting the real threats to the region).

[volbound1700]

Also keep in mind that Coalitions form more easily against HRE members who take over lands from other HRE members.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by volbound1700:

I do think the game needs to be modified to only favor Coalitions against the top 8 great power (keep it for others but make it a lot less to form). Coalitions are very inconsistent in this game and rarely done effectively (targeting the real threats to the region).

I wouldn't restrict it that harshly, but maybe scale to the target nation's total development or development relative to average of their neighbors. A country can get quite large and threatening without actually being a Great Power.

[E=d.u²]

Ahahahaha now I love this game even more.

[TheSeigneur1]

So, I tried again.

I had the game's official task to reunify. Ingolstadt allied with Landshut against me (historically accurate), other allies were Hungary and Croatia as well as Mainz. I was allied with Passau, Salzburg and Habsburg-Austria. The EMPEROR was my ally? And as soon as I finally managed to beat them and took over, WHOLE of the Empire allied against me, and formed a coalition. I could not join a coalition ever, dont even know how to form one. Game does not explain ♥♥♥♥.
Whole of Italy joined, and territories so far away they could not possibly care.

This is NOT how Europe worked, or the HRE. The algorythm makes it impossible to play as a small faction.
The diplomatic options are stupidly limited, reminds me of Medieval2:Total War, and that game is ancient. This whole ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game is a blender!

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by TheSeigneur1:

This is NOT how Europe worked, or the HRE. The algorythm makes it impossible to play as a small faction.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. It's your lack of experience that makes it impossible for you to play as a small faction. Your mistake is taking too much too fast. You need to look at the peace screen. In the lower right hand corner, there will be a sword icon if you are taking enough territory to cause a coalition against you to form. If you don't want to fight a coalition, take less territory. And that is EXACTLY how Europe worked. Wars there led to very small territorial changes precisely because the other nations would gang up on aggressors.

Once you learn the game, you will find ways to get around this mechanic. It is possible to conquer the entire world in EU4 starting as literally any nation. But you have to know what you're doing first, and you don't.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by TheSeigneur1:

So, I tried again.

I had the game's official task to reunify. Ingolstadt allied with Landshut against me (historically accurate), other allies were Hungary and Croatia as well as Mainz. I was allied with Passau, Salzburg and Habsburg-Austria. The EMPEROR was my ally? And as soon as I finally managed to beat them and took over, WHOLE of the Empire allied against me, and formed a coalition. I could not join a coalition ever, dont even know how to form one. Game does not explain ♥♥♥♥.
Whole of Italy joined, and territories so far away they could not possibly care.

This is NOT how Europe worked, or the HRE. The algorythm makes it impossible to play as a small faction.
The diplomatic options are stupidly limited, reminds me of Medieval2:Total War, and that game is ancient. This whole ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game is a blender!

It sounds like the same thing happened as before, just like we explained to you.

You annexed multiple provinces from the countries you were fighting (Ingolstadt and Landshut I guess). You didn't look carefully at the aggressive expansion this would create, which the game lays out quite plainly in the peace screen, and you took too much. As a result you got a lot of AE within the HRE, where AE gains are much higher, and a coalition formed against you.

Now you can say this isn't what historically happened to Bavaria, and it isn't. But that's because historical accuracy pretty much goes out the window when the game starts, except for a few nudges from events, missions, and modifiers. AE is a balance mechanic to slow down snowballing; the game describes it, and the wiki goes into detail if you feel that's not enough.

[Marquoz]

He probably never even considered options like forced vassalization, either, which is a good way to lower AE anywhere and especially in the HRE.

[EricB]

Yeah I'm always looking at that coalition description in the lower right corner when doing a peace deal. When I was just starting off I didn't notice it and got a coalition that ended up wrecking the game, so now I pay attention to it.

One thing I still haven't figured out how to deal with is what if an ally gives you land in a peace deal that triggers a coalition against you? For example they give your country a 30 dev province where you already had pretty high AE prior to the war, and it's enough to push it over the top? How best to deal with that situation? If I was the war leader I wouldn't take any land in that situation, but the AI is dumb and triggers a coalition against you?

[Marquoz]

The AI will only give you land that you have cores or claims on, or that you've marked as a "province of vital interest." You can't do much about cores (and you shouldn't want to anyway), but you can avoid creating claims before you're ready to go after them. They have an expiration date anyway, so there are a couple reasons to do this.

[bri]

Also, the ai can't give you land you don't occupy so if you're worried about that happening then transfer control of the provinces to someone else involved in the war (ideally your subject that is unable to core the province).

[cråck]

imo it's just the hre non-sens...
holding ae in this area is such a time consuming mission...
when i play inside i do always tend dismantle it, and if i want to be the emperor then starting as austria bohemia or brandy has way more sens and you should do the same
i am currently playing swiss, it is ♥♥♥♥ so 40 years ig, i conquered a total of 13 provinces
4 from excomunicated savoy for like 20 ae,
3 from burgundy meaning outside of the hre
5 from milan split into 3 wars otherwaise even Ming and mayan tribes would join the coalition
+ initial reconquest on genoa and tree leagues for like no ae...
so by now i conquered 13 provinces for like 100 ish dev, half of witch was milan itself split into 3 wars but for some hidden reason even bohemia has like 40 ae on me... 100 ish dev in 40 years is bs, you can start as a freaking yarkaland and just dev click 40 years doing nothign else then rent your army as condotiery, to end having way better economy, total dev mp and tax... and that's the whole non-sens
i can't belive most of ppl enjoy playing inside the hre
any start is more enjoyable in fact, as defeatng strong opponents gives you the satisfaction of accomplishement, while inside the hre the only opponent for you is the AE a freaking magic factor apearing from the sky
so yeah i got your point, but if you just chain wars and keep potential coalition members "truce-lock" you are fine to form germany or any tag once you've done with bavaria, otherwaise just play slow, speed 5 few years, dev click, improve relations around, rent army as condotieri etc etc