Defender of the Faith Issues

[General_Banana]

Hello, I would just like to post my thoughts on how to improve this infuriating mechanic in game so that the overall experience of the game is more enjoyable.

But I would like to preface by saying that I am running into constant issues trying to attack minor catholic countries whilst the Commonwealth are the DotF, and never seem to stop being it. I have looked at many guides and discussions on how to maneuver around it and have found no good solution to the conundrum. This is because all methods involve fighting the DotF in some manner which is impossible for me to do without ruining my finances and slowing my pace to a near halt.

The main point I would like to suggest is implementing some sort of cooldown timer on DotF when a nation loses it. Maybe a year long cooldown, this is because I have managed to, on several occasions remove the title from the Commonwealth in a battle. Then they immediately buy it back with no time to spare. This is what makes the DotF mechanic so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ IMO. Why can a nation immediately become DotF again when the title was just lost in a hard fought war? It makes doing that war irrelevant and pointless. The mechanic is not engaging or interesting to deal with like aggressive expansion. Which is fun because you are able to maneuver around it in so many different ways, not just through fighting.

Yes, I understand I am salty, but it is the only mechanic I have experienced in this game that has led me to actually be tempted to uninstall and not play it anymore; and I do not believe that the game, with so much fun stuff should have such a massive turnoff like this overbearingly stupid mechanic.

Any thoughts on how to improve this mechanic or advice on how to deal with it in ways that don't involve fighting the DotF themselves would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[Kapika96]

Yeah, them immediately retaking it is pretty annoying.

As for ways around it, ally them. If you're their ally and call them into another war then you'll be able to attack catholic countries without them interfering (just be sure to finish wars vs catholic countries before you finish the war you called them in to). Or check to see if your target has any allies that you can attack instead of them that wouldn't call in the defender. Sure you'd get increased AE from taking your targets provinces, but it'd be a much easier war.

[Compassionate727]

What country are you playing as?

[General_Banana]

Thank you for the advice Kapika96, I will try that in later games.

I am currently playing as Byzantium and am trying to take out Hungary and move into Italy but the Commonwealth, whom got incredibly large in this current run, have prevented that. And we are rivaled so I can't really ally them or try to avoid them in any way.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by General_Banana:

Thank you for the advice Kapika96, I will try that in later games.

I am currently playing as Byzantium and am trying to take out Hungary and move into Italy but the Commonwealth, whom got incredibly large in this current run, have prevented that. And we are rivaled so I can't really ally them or try to avoid them in any way.

Are there any catholic OPMs around that you could take advantage of? Perhaps the Knights or Ragusa?

You could declare on them (pulling the Commonwealth in as DOTF) quickly fully occupy them, and then peace out. You just need to take something from the peace deal, even the min amount of money would work, for it to count as a loss and get the Commonwealth to lose DOTF. Full occupation of the OPM should be enough for at least 10% warscore (even with the Commonwealth) and if not you only need to hold them off long enough for warscore, war exhaustion or length of war to tick up enough to peace out with minimum money.

Then as soon as the OPM is willing to peace out declare on Hungary (ideally just a day before peacing out the OPM). Then even if the Commonwealth retake DOTF straight away it will be too late to intervene in the war with Hungary.

[Compassionate727]

I know you are reluctant to do so, but honestly, I would go head-to-head with the Commonwealth at this point and just cripple them. Declare war directly on them (so you can take more provinces in the peace deal) if their allies aren't that big of a deal, or if they are, declare war on a random weak country and draw the Commonwealth in that way. Then aim to fully occupy them. It will be hugely expensive: you'll probably need to go over your force limit, either building your own army (preferable if you have the manpower) or hiring mercs. You'll have to raise war taxes, you'll need a bunch of loans, etc. Huge expense, yes.

But if you completely destroy their armies and fully occupy them, it will be completely worth it. You don't even have to take anything from them (and arguably shouldn't, to prevent revanchism, unless another country also declares war on the Commonwealth): by wiping out all of their armies, you will force them to rebuild their military strength from scratch. This at a time when they have no manpower (because they expended all their manpower trying to fight you, and they have high war exhaustion, reducing manpower recovery speed), they have no gold (because they spent all their gold recruiting new units and mercs to fight you, and reinforcing their damaged armies—the reinforcement cost is extremely expensive), they are making a lot less gold (because they are paying lots of interest on all the loans they took to finance the war, plus you occupied their entire country, which means their entire country has devastation, which reduces income), and they are contending with revolts (because you spiked their war exhaustion, which spikes unrest) and foreign enemies (because the AI is opportunistic and almost always declares war on weakened enemies if they can win). If you can cripple the Commonwealth that way, they will likely never be able to bounce back. Future wars against them will be easier, this will make expansion easier, your country will grow, you'll make more money, and suddenly that scary number of loans you took during your first war will be easy to pay back.

Just make sure you don't go bankrupt unless you have at least five year truces with all your neighbors, or strong allies, because bankrupty makes you unable to defend yourself. (You'll receive a notification when you are within 18 months of bankruptcy.)

[General_Banana]

So I have done that. It was difficult but it was fun, didn't think I could do it but we all learn something new. I managed to take a bit of Venice just after the war. However, now Spain have taken the mantle and the same problem ensues. Will I have to just apply the same big war? this is just so I know how to continue conquering places as I swing left to right

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by General_Banana:

However, now Spain have taken the mantle and the same problem ensues.

Which is exactly how it's supposed to work. Defender of the Faith is an anti-blobbing mechanic, a way for the AI to gang up against an expansionist of a different religion. If you're not willing or able to deal with it, you have some options:

1) Expand on a different continent. The DotF will only defend the continent where they have their capital

2) Expand by attacking a different religion, one with a weak DotF (or none at all).

3) Attack your own religion.

4) Change your religion to match that of the DotF, or don't convert to one that's different (start in Europe as Catholic and stay Catholic, for example). Of course, this isn't always practical.

The goal of 1, 2, and 3 is to get stronger elsewhere, so strong that you don't care if a DotF gets involved in your wars. The goal of 4 is to dodge the mechanic entirely. Or you can fight through it as designed. But you do have options.