Why is the rival system so broken in EU4?

[volbound1700]

I hate when they give you only 1 or 2 options for rival and it is a close Ally. Why are not any of the top 8 factions (minus you) an option? I am Spain right now and I have rivaled Mamelukes and England (lost Burgundy and Morocco). My options are Portugal and Aragon. Literally my Allies (and I will likely get PU with Aragon soon). Why aren't the Ottomans, Austria, Poland, Tunis, etc. options?

[MasterYi]

Ottomans, Austria, Poland are probably too far away or strong for you.

If you want to rival them just expand more and get stronger.

Tunis is too weak if you already eclipsed Morocco.

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by MasterYi:

Ottomans, Austria, Poland are probably too far away or strong for you.

If you want to rival them just expand more and get stronger.

Tunis is too weak if you already eclipsed Morocco.

That is the case, I eclipsed most of the people around me but still it really is annoying that you don't have options. I have had more issues in other game.

In this situation, it would make sense to rival Portugal and break that Alliance as I may pursue the PU soon. Also Portugal doesn't contribute much with the exception of their navy.

Still, I think this is something that the game should be more flexible with.

[Vetgirig on Linux]

The more you play, the more you learn to understand how the rival system is helping the game become what it is and how important it is for the games diplomacy and to keep it interesting.

Even if the mechanism can be very annoying at times.

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by Vetgirig on Linux:

The more you play, the more you learn to understand how the rival system is helping the game become what it is and how important it is for the games diplomacy and to keep it interesting.

Even if the mechanism can be very annoying at times.

I just don't like when I don't have very many choices. In this instance, it probably makes sense to go with Portugal vs. Aragon because I will eventually need to pursue the PU anyways.

[Ashling]

Honestly, I think having 3 rivals is too much for the game, should have been definitely slashed to 1 maybe 2. I mean, a rival should be someone important to your nation and making that important thing three things just dilutes the feeling of what a rival is, one nation is more impactful than a fifth of a small cheer team. I feel like only having one would making loosening up the rival restrictions more fair because if they could balance around making you want a mid size power as your rival then you wouldn't want to waste your one rival spot.

Too bad the entire game is balanced around having 3 rivals and is a fundamental part in prioritizing monarch points.

[tonypa]

You don't have to pick 3 rivals. You can take 2 or 1.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by Triangle:

Honestly, I think having 3 rivals is too much for the game, should have been definitely slashed to 1 maybe 2. I mean, a rival should be someone important to your nation and making that important thing three things just dilutes the feeling of what a rival is, one nation is more impactful than a fifth of a small cheer team. I feel like only having one would making loosening up the rival restrictions more fair because if they could balance around making you want a mid size power as your rival then you wouldn't want to waste your one rival spot.

Too bad the entire game is balanced around having 3 rivals and is a fundamental part in prioritizing monarch points.

Historically speaking England definitely had 2 rivals in France and Spain. The Ottomans had Austria, Poland, the Mamluks & Persia all as rivals (some overlapping) at times too. Austria had France, the Ottomans and later Prussia as rivals.

Limiting it to just 1 would arguably be ahistorical.

[Malvastor]

There's a fairly narrow range of 'strength' that the game seems to look at when calculating who can be your rival. And it doesn't seem to worry too much about distance- plenty of times I get a rival option that's on the other side of the continent from me and that I've never really crossed paths with. So if the Ottomans and Austria and Tunis aren't options, they're either too weak or too strong for you.

Once you PU Aragon, your options will probably change significantly.

[Spude]

Player controlled weak(er) nation should be able to rival stronger AI nations imo. What would be the problem. Players can already cheese bigger nations as they wish.

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

There's a fairly narrow range of 'strength' that the game seems to look at when calculating who can be your rival. And it doesn't seem to worry too much about distance- plenty of times I get a rival option that's on the other side of the continent from me and that I've never really crossed paths with. So if the Ottomans and Austria and Tunis aren't options, they're either too weak or too strong for you.

Once you PU Aragon, your options will probably change significantly.

Yeah, I have the PU over Aragon and just invaded and PUed Naples as well (Aragon had lost them). I ended up rivaling Portugal so that solved this game but I have ran into other issues where the options are limited. It seems like the stronger you get, the more your options dwindle.

[Malvastor]

Of course. It's lonely at the top.

[Vetgirig on Linux]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

There's a fairly narrow range of 'strength' that the game seems to look at when calculating who can be your rival.

Between 25% to 400% of your strength are available rivals.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by Vetgirig on Linux:

Originally posted by Malvastor:

There's a fairly narrow range of 'strength' that the game seems to look at when calculating who can be your rival.

Between 25% to 400% of your strength are available rivals.

Are you sure? I've been in situations where there were several empires who had maybe 50-75% of my strength who weren't available as rivals.

[Marquoz]

Same here. I don't think those numbers are accurate.

[volbound1700]

There is some range aspect because when I got into India in a game as Great Britain, Ming China became available as an option.