As Ottoman, released Transylvania... but lost my claims on the lands?

[Beast]

Been trying to keep my Aggressive Expansion down, so I thought it would be easier to release Transylvania from Hungary and then conquer it later... but I noticed that I lost my "Permanent Claims" on those provinces when I released them... (See in picture below)

Obviously i could start fabricating claims, but Is that normal behavior for the game?

Also, is there no way to split Hungary into smaller pieces and vassalizing those parts? Or is that always a 2 step process?


https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1687144459864886777/E80D587281E2C3028A75431C7A7725981EDF7B14/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

[Malvastor]

Yes, it is normal. Check the details on the peace screen carefully; it will tell you when releasing a nation will remove your claims from those provinces.

Hungary has a couple nations that can be split off from it, but not a whole lot. There's Transylvania (not ideal if you already have claims, as you found out), Nitra, and Croatia if they integrated it; everything else is just Hungarian. I find Nitra is the most convenient if I want to split something off.

Unless you meant a one-step option to split off and vassalize a chunk, in which case no. You release the nation, then diplo-vassalize them. It's usually not too hard, since you get a big relations bonus for releasing them, but if they're big enough or in the HRE they're still likely to refuse.

[Beast]

Thanks! I never noticed that blurb about losing claims... kinda weird... I think IRL the Ottomans did actually split Hungary in half by vassalizing Transylvania. But thats ok.

Thanks for the info!

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Yes, it is normal to lose any claims you have on provinces that are transferred as part of Release Nation or Return Core (unless they're your cores you're returning to yourself, of course) in a peace deal.

What you should try to do in your case is take one or two provinces that are Transylvanian cores in the peace deal, then when you're not at war, right-click on your own nation, press Z, then scroll down the list to release Transylvania as a vassal, after which you can take their remaining cores in the next war using the extremely powerful Reconquest casus belli for only a quarter of the normal AE. Forcing your enemy to release independent nations in the peace deal is generally going to make your AE worse, not better, as now there are going to be even more tags in existence that will rack up AE against you. Sure, occasionally you'll pop out a two- or three-province nation small enough to diplo-vassalize, but at that point it's hardly worth taking 10 years longer unless you have a huge surplus of Diplo mana.

[Malvastor]

Totally Innocent Chatbot님이 먼저 게시:

Forcing your enemy to release independent nations in the peace deal is generally going to make your AE worse, not better, as now there are going to be even more tags in existence that will rack up AE against you. Sure, occasionally you'll pop out a two- or three-province nation small enough to diplo-vassalize, but at that point it's hardly worth taking 10 years longer unless you have a huge surplus of Diplo mana.

As a corollary though, it can definitely be worth it if you're releasing a nation that has cores owned by other countries. E.G. you can make Aq Qoyonlu release one province of Syria, vassalize them, and get a Reconquest CB for Mamluk's dozen-ish Syria provinces.

[Beast]

Totally Innocent Chatbot님이 먼저 게시:

Yes, it is normal to lose any claims you have on provinces that are transferred as part of Release Nation or Return Core (unless they're your cores you're returning to yourself, of course) in a peace deal.

What you should try to do in your case is take one or two provinces that are Transylvanian cores in the peace deal, then when you're not at war, right-click on your own nation, press Z, then scroll down the list to release Transylvania as a vassal, after which you can take their remaining cores in the next war using the extremely powerful Reconquest casus belli for only a quarter of the normal AE. Forcing your enemy to release independent nations in the peace deal is generally going to make your AE worse, not better, as now there are going to be even more tags in existence that will rack up AE against you. Sure, occasionally you'll pop out a two- or three-province nation small enough to diplo-vassalize, but at that point it's hardly worth taking 10 years longer unless you have a huge surplus of Diplo mana.

All the hours in this game, and I learn a new way of doing things every time I play, nice!

[Vetgirig on Linux]

Malvastor님이 먼저 게시:

As a corollary though, it can definitely be worth it if you're releasing a nation that has cores owned by other countries. E.G. you can make Aq Qoyonlu release one province of Syria, vassalize them, and get a Reconquest CB for Mamluk's dozen-ish Syria provinces.

Actually its faster to take the province in the war. Then just release Syria as a vassal. And then feed it the other AQ provinces so you do not have to core any. Also you get re-conquest against both Mamluks and QQ.

In the war against QQ - take a province so you can release Iraq. Then re-conquest Iraq in next war against QQ.

While waiting for second war against QQ - do the re-conquest against Mamluks.

[Kapika96]

Yeah, you (temporarily) lose claims if you give up the land.

If they're permanent claims you can get them back though. Just fabricate claims on it and if it was a perma claim before, then it will be perma when you fabricate too. It will never expire and still give the 25% core discount from permanent claims rather than just the 10% discount from regular ones.

[Beast]

Follow up question: When you release a subordinate nation in order to take advantage of their core provinces and declare a war for less AE... how do you know what their cores will be? Is this just a savescum tactic or is there a way to know ahead of time?

[grotaclas]

Jim, Earthworm님이 먼저 게시:

Follow up question: When you release a subordinate nation in order to take advantage of their core provinces and declare a war for less AE... how do you know what their cores will be? Is this just a savescum tactic or is there a way to know ahead of time?

The cores are shown in the province window. Cores of dead countries are just greyed out.

[Beast]

grotaclas님이 먼저 게시:

Jim, Earthworm님이 먼저 게시:

Follow up question: When you release a subordinate nation in order to take advantage of their core provinces and declare a war for less AE... how do you know what their cores will be? Is this just a savescum tactic or is there a way to know ahead of time?

The cores are shown in the province window. Cores of dead countries are just greyed out.

I am not sure what you mean. Perhaps my question was unclear:

When I release a nation from the diplomacy "z" menu, is there a way for me to see what their core provinces are? Not just the ones I am releasing, but what future cores I could declare war for and try to conquer at the reduced AE?

[bri]

Go to diplomacy map mode and select a province owned by the nation, the map will switch to displaying their information and provinces they have cores in but don't own will be grey with green hash.

[Marquoz]

You can see it before you release them. Click on any province on the map. If you see a greyed out core, that's potentially part of a new nation. Check all nearby provinces. Any such nation with many cores is a huge expansion target. Grab one, release it as a vassal, and fight reconquest wars for the rest.

Common targets for this are Gascony (a huge potential nation in southwestern France), Syria (just south of Turkey), and large nations that start independent but tend to get integrated early on (like Byzantium (which has both its initial cores and 8 or ten more under Ottoman rule), Croatia, Serbia, Bohemia, and so on).

[Beast]

Ahhhh, I see it now. Thanks all!