Good Aragon Ideas?

[ඞ]

For my first Idea group, im thinking of something in the Diplomatic Catagory, as my Heir is a 2/6/3 and I'll obviously not need to focus on Diplo tech. Exploration is out of the question, as I personally find colonizing to be boring and time consuming, two things I dont like combined. I was thinking Influence, as im going for the "Consulate of the Sea" Achievement, and I know one of the ideas reduce Aggressive expansion impact, which seems important as a few of the needed provinces are in Italy/AE Central. Any suggestions? Im Hoping to get Religious as my second idea group, seeing as ill be expanding through North Africa and later Egypt up into Anatolia/Balkans.

[Halala]

Diplomatic is also a great idea group. +1 diplomat and +25% improve relations help avoiding coalitions but you can use this extra diplomat for f.e. fabricating more claims which in combination with -20% province warscore cost allows you to conquer land faster. Besides all of these, the finisher makes "game of thrones" way easier as you don't have to wait years for your king to die and free precious relation slots. Influence is more of a vassal heavy play but since you're going for all centers of trade there's no need for blobbing that hard.

[mischa.zehnbauer]

If you only want to go for the achievement, Influence isn't needed. Just wait until 1490 for Genoa and be a bit careful when taking Venice. However, if you plan to do a complete game, influence is great as it helps you to integrate Castille and form Spain. Be doing so you should get 3-4 Colonial nations without ever colonizing a single province.

Anyway. Administrative and Humanisms are great as always, as is defensive. If you want to keep the aragonese ideas and traditions, add in offensive and probably quality or quantity as well. You have to fight the Ottomans and Aragon's ideas are mostly geared toward trade and naval.

[Hartassen]

I'm doing a playthrough as aragon for the same achievement. I took religious as my first idea simply because I want the papal influence and the option to call crusades on ottomans also to convert religion AND culture of africa later on with aragonese -10% culture costs + religious finisher -25%.

As for military ideas I would definitely say defensive first, as for diplomatic I am thinking maritime to fight ottoman navies but it might not have to be the first diplomatic idea, influence would certainly help since I have naples+castile PU and planning on vassalizing portugal (already fought one war to get them under 100% warscore)

[Halala]

Unfortunately navy warfare isn't that complex as land one and it usually wins one who has more ships so imo if you really have probs with ottoman navy, just take few loans if needed and build over force limit and ofc use galleys which deal 2 times more dmg im inland seas.

[Hartassen]

Originally posted by Halla:

Unfortunately navy warfare isn't that complex as land one and it usually wins one who has more ships so imo if you really have probs with ottoman navy, just take few loans if needed and build over force limit and ofc use galleys which deal 2 times more dmg im inland seas.

Ottomans tend to have a large navy force limit so if you want to fight them maritime is a good idea. It also allows for a larger trade fleet which helps with income. After winning the naval war you can spread your ships out for 100% blockades which helps a lot with warscore.

[Free Luigi M.]

Trade is definitely really, really good for you. As well as Maritime. Better than Influence.
Grab Religious and economic. and then Defensive, Quality, Quantity, Offensive. Or if you don't want 4 mil ideas, take Innovative. Really good events and sinergies with the other groups.

[Barry White]

Did this achievement recently (yesterday) and then turned it into the mare nostrum one.

Administrative ideas were my first ones but then i take them almost every game since you will inevitably save points with them. I was tempted to take trade but i didnt have anywhere to put the merchants so the trade efficiency and global power would be the only gain.
That said, trade was my second idea group but by then i needed merchants in aleppo, alexandria and ragusa to use my power effectively.
Then i took religious because i was having issues with muslims.
After this i just spammed out military idea groups because my army wasnt up to par. Aragon only gets 10% morale and you cant form spain to get the spanish ideas so i was having some issues in full stack battles.

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Trade is definitely really, really good for you. As well as Maritime. Better than Influence.

Maritime ideas xDdeeeeee man, im really runnning out of sailors guys.

Influence ideas does something. Maritime doesnt. I ended up becoming the holy roman emperor (as i do almost every game in europe) and influence would've made passing reforms much easier. Not to mention than +0.5 yearly prestige is not bad anymore and -20% AE is very good if youre conquering Italy or Germany. The -25% diploannex cost will help with Aragon and possibly Castille if you PU them and the diplomatic reputation might make it so you can inheirit Naples. I wouldn't pick it as Aragon but maritime is a joke tier idea group.

I cant believe people are recommending maritime ideas. Its the penultimate idea group and the only one it beats is naval ideas. If you cant beat the ottoman navy then just build 20 heavies and buy an admiral. The ottomans dont buy many (if any) heavies so a navy of them can crush especially with the new naval combat width. Not that you even need a navy since you can just invade through egypt if you conquer north africa.

[Hartassen]

Originally posted by Barry White:

Did this achievement recently (yesterday) and then turned it into the mare nostrum one.

Administrative ideas were my first ones but then i take them almost every game since you will inevitably save points with them. I was tempted to take trade but i didnt have anywhere to put the merchants so the trade efficiency and global power would be the only gain.
That said, trade was my second idea group but by then i needed merchants in aleppo, alexandria and ragusa to use my power effectively.
Then i took religious because i was having issues with muslims.
After this i just spammed out military idea groups because my army wasnt up to par. Aragon only gets 10% morale and you cant form spain to get the spanish ideas so i was having some issues in full stack battles.

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Trade is definitely really, really good for you. As well as Maritime. Better than Influence.

Maritime ideas xDdeeeeee man, im really runnning out of sailors guys.

Influence ideas does something. Maritime doesnt. I ended up becoming the holy roman emperor (as i do almost every game in europe) and influence would've made passing reforms much easier. Not to mention than +0.5 yearly prestige is not bad anymore and -20% AE is very good if youre conquering Italy or Germany. The -25% diploannex cost will help with Aragon and possibly Castille if you PU them and the diplomatic reputation might make it so you can inheirit Naples. I wouldn't pick it as Aragon but maritime is a joke tier idea group.

I cant believe people are recommending maritime ideas. Its the penultimate idea group and the only one it beats is naval ideas. If you cant beat the ottoman navy then just build 20 heavies and buy an admiral. The ottomans dont buy many (if any) heavies so a navy of them can crush especially with the new naval combat width. Not that you even need a navy since you can just invade through egypt if you conquer north africa.

I just finished this achievement in 15 may 1586 with religious, maritime and defensive. I had a lot of cash problems in this campaign and being behind in diplomatic tech from integrating castile and naples. Maritime isn't one of the best ideas but it gives 50% naval force limit which allows you to build a lot more transport ships (which you need for genoa/venica/ragusa and also 3 different places in africa if you don't conquer the whole coast). Unless you plan on increasing autonomy everywhere and pick humanist you will get rebels that you will need many transport ships to deal with.

So laugh all you want but it's not stupid to pick it for this achievement.

[Halala]

Don't know why would you ever consider taking martime or navy ideas but if really "needed" take the latter ones. They have better ideas than land leader maneuver or ship cost.

[Free Luigi M.]

Originally posted by Barry White:

Did this achievement recently (yesterday) and then turned it into the mare nostrum one.

Administrative ideas were my first ones but then i take them almost every game since you will inevitably save points with them. I was tempted to take trade but i didnt have anywhere to put the merchants so the trade efficiency and global power would be the only gain.
That said, trade was my second idea group but by then i needed merchants in aleppo, alexandria and ragusa to use my power effectively.
Then i took religious because i was having issues with muslims.
After this i just spammed out military idea groups because my army wasnt up to par. Aragon only gets 10% morale and you cant form spain to get the spanish ideas so i was having some issues in full stack battles.

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Trade is definitely really, really good for you. As well as Maritime. Better than Influence.

Maritime ideas xDdeeeeee man, im really runnning out of sailors guys.

Influence ideas does something. Maritime doesnt. I ended up becoming the holy roman emperor (as i do almost every game in europe) and influence would've made passing reforms much easier. Not to mention than +0.5 yearly prestige is not bad anymore and -20% AE is very good if youre conquering Italy or Germany. The -25% diploannex cost will help with Aragon and possibly Castille if you PU them and the diplomatic reputation might make it so you can inheirit Naples. I wouldn't pick it as Aragon but maritime is a joke tier idea group.

I cant believe people are recommending maritime ideas. Its the penultimate idea group and the only one it beats is naval ideas. If you cant beat the ottoman navy then just build 20 heavies and buy an admiral. The ottomans dont buy many (if any) heavies so a navy of them can crush especially with the new naval combat width. Not that you even need a navy since you can just invade through egypt if you conquer north africa.

If you plan on being a naval power, Maritime is a MUST. Not just good, but mandatory.
Of course you are playing singleplayer so you can easily dominate even without it if you just knock out every other naval power.

Originally posted by Halla:

Don't know why would you ever consider taking martime or navy ideas but if really "needed" take the latter ones. They have better ideas than land leader maneuver or ship cost.

Same reason you pick up military ideas. To win. Great Britan vs Spain. Whoever has Maritime wins.

[mischa.zehnbauer]

I always felt that the ship boni from quality are more than enough to control the mediterrean sea as at least a medium sized nation.

Influence hasn't only 25% Diplo Annex cost, but also an additional 20% policy combined with administrative ideas. For the achievement it's not exactly important, but in a complete game as Aragon that's simply great.

Trade....hm. Granted, at the beginning it's really nice to have this additional merchants around. Later on it often feels like a waste to me. With aragon I ended up with 15 merchants without trade. That was overkill of course, but even in a regular game you should have around 8 merchants by 1650. 2 from the start, 3-4 after integrating Castille from their CNs, 1 for South africa (taken from Portugal or inherited by Castille), 1 for indian trade company.

[Free Luigi M.]

Originally posted by mischa.zehnbauer:

I always felt that the ship boni from quality are more than enough to control the mediterrean sea as at least a medium sized nation.

Influence hasn't only 25% Diplo Annex cost, but also an additional 20% policy combined with administrative ideas. For the achievement it's not exactly important, but in a complete game as Aragon that's simply great.

Trade....hm. Granted, at the beginning it's really nice to have this additional merchants around. Later on it often feels like a waste to me. With aragon I ended up with 15 merchants without trade. That was overkill of course, but even in a regular game you should have around 8 merchants by 1650. 2 from the start, 3-4 after integrating Castille from their CNs, 1 for South africa (taken from Portugal or inherited by Castille), 1 for indian trade company.

If you are a trade Nation the additional merchants are not the reason you pick Trade ideas.
Rather the increased trade efficiency, steering power and trade power are.

[mischa.zehnbauer]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

If you plan on being a naval power, Maritime is a MUST. Not just good, but mandatory.
Of course you are playing singleplayer so you can easily dominate even without it if you just knock out every other naval power.

Originally posted by Halla:

Don't know why would you ever consider taking martime or navy ideas but if really "needed" take the latter ones. They have better ideas than land leader maneuver or ship cost.

Same reason you pick up military ideas. To win. Great Britan vs Spain. Whoever has Maritime wins.

Ok, fair point from a multiplayer perpective. However, OP was obviously referring to single player as he asked about achievements. Here I'd say that maritime as well as naval is simply overkill in 99% of scenarios.

[mischa.zehnbauer]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Originally posted by mischa.zehnbauer:

I always felt that the ship boni from quality are more than enough to control the mediterrean sea as at least a medium sized nation.

Influence hasn't only 25% Diplo Annex cost, but also an additional 20% policy combined with administrative ideas. For the achievement it's not exactly important, but in a complete game as Aragon that's simply great.

Trade....hm. Granted, at the beginning it's really nice to have this additional merchants around. Later on it often feels like a waste to me. With aragon I ended up with 15 merchants without trade. That was overkill of course, but even in a regular game you should have around 8 merchants by 1650. 2 from the start, 3-4 after integrating Castille from their CNs, 1 for South africa (taken from Portugal or inherited by Castille), 1 for indian trade company.

If you are a trade Nation the additional merchants are not the reason you pick Trade ideas.
Rather the increased trade efficiency, steering power and trade power are.

True, but as Aragon it is pretty easy to direct trade from asia and/or the new world to genoa by simple domination. Granted, trade efficiency will still increase your income by a noticeable amount. Also, I know that the first 120 to 150 years are also an important part of the campaign, so I won't argue here.

[Free Luigi M.]

Even in a singleplayer game as Aragon dominating Mediterranean, Atlantic and Indian Ocean with a bunch of colonial nations and trade companies I would definitely take Maritime + Trade.
At that point it's not necessarily to win, but to field immense numbers of ships to monopolize every trade node and being able to answer any threat around the globe.