Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

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Nedyahlz Jun 27, 2017 @ 9:37am
Byzantium is actually IMPOSSIBLE
You cant even blockade the straits anymore! You cant get austria or poland as allies! Paradox has legitmatley made it IMPOSSIBLE to play byzantium!
EDIT: This post has become really popular. If anyone is wondering I did manage to get a game up and going but then got stomped by the ottomans in a separate war.
Second Edit: This thread is STILL resurfacing?
Last edited by Nedyahlz; Jul 29, 2017 @ 2:37pm
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Showing 1-15 of 208 comments
Æthelwulf Jun 27, 2017 @ 9:45am 
Welcome my friend, take a seat and let me tell you the tale of my people.
Laladen Jun 27, 2017 @ 9:48am 
Originally posted by nedyahlz:
You cant even blockade the straits anymore! You cant get austria or poland as allies! Paradox has legitmatley made it IMPOSSIBLE to play byzantium!

Its not impossible at all. It's just hard(er).
yyyyzryrd Jun 27, 2017 @ 10:03am 
Originally posted by Fedaykin:
Originally posted by nedyahlz:
You cant even blockade the straits anymore! You cant get austria or poland as allies! Paradox has legitmatley made it IMPOSSIBLE to play byzantium!

Its not impossible at all. It's just hard(er).
Not at start game. Not at all. It's very difficult for Hungary and Poland to not rival eachother (happened to me just about every Poland game so far). Getting an alliance with Austria is difficult as is already. So, good luck playing Byzantium. If you make it to 1450, good luck against Venice! Good luck against Mamlukeann allies if they beaat Ottomans too! Good luck restoring Greece even, Ottomans just expand asap to Candar and the other Turkish ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at start. Then take Byzantium. You can not gainy any power in the meantine, since, where can you really expand into? Venice? Likely not. Knights? Guaranteed by Mamluks. Crimea? You have a death wish bud? Ottomans? You sure you legit?
It still is possible, only if you wait and do literally nothing but wait till the Ottomans get rekt by other powers., while not getting rekt yourself if you are to have stronker ally hordes.
tonypa Jun 27, 2017 @ 10:20am 
Byzantium with game version 1.22 was discussed in several threads within last days:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/236850/discussions/0/2592234299540540674/
http://steamcommunity.com/app/236850/discussions/0/2333276539611303616/
http://steamcommunity.com/app/236850/discussions/0/2333276539613548579/

Just relax and try to get some hints from other player experience. Yes, it is difficult, that is whole point of playing such country. For easy run you would play Ottos instead.

Yes, there is randomness and luck. Be ready to restart.
yyyyzryrd Jun 27, 2017 @ 10:32am 
Originally posted by tonypa:
Byzantium with game version 1.22 was discussed in several threads within last days:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/236850/discussions/0/2592234299540540674/
http://steamcommunity.com/app/236850/discussions/0/2333276539611303616/
http://steamcommunity.com/app/236850/discussions/0/2333276539613548579/

Just relax and try to get some hints from other player experience. Yes, it is difficult, that is whole point of playing such country. For easy run you would play Ottos instead.

Yes, there is randomness and luck. Be ready to restart.
Achievements in general are becoming more difficult to earn. These aren't even only my words, but even some people who make Youtube guides about EUIV trust in this too.
tonypa Jun 27, 2017 @ 10:38am 
Because Paradox keeps fixing some of the exploits people have used for these achievements. Improving AI, killing off more obvious bugs, changing maps etc.
Laladen Jun 27, 2017 @ 10:41am 
Originally posted by Wilk Curator:
Originally posted by Fedaykin:

Its not impossible at all. It's just hard(er).
Not at start game. Not at all. It's very difficult for Hungary and Poland to not rival eachother (happened to me just about every Poland game so far). Getting an alliance with Austria is difficult as is already. So, good luck playing Byzantium. If you make it to 1450, good luck against Venice! Good luck against Mamlukeann allies if they beaat Ottomans too! Good luck restoring Greece even, Ottomans just expand asap to Candar and the other Turkish ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at start. Then take Byzantium. You can not gainy any power in the meantine, since, where can you really expand into? Venice? Likely not. Knights? Guaranteed by Mamluks. Crimea? You have a death wish bud? Ottomans? You sure you legit?
It still is possible, only if you wait and do literally nothing but wait till the Ottomans get rekt by other powers., while not getting rekt yourself if you are to have stronker ally hordes.

I've done Besillius and Restoing the Roman Empire as Byzantium. If you play using traditional strategies such as you would use for a 1-3 province country, you will likely fail.

There are several strategies that exist and are still valid. Including the ones I've used which you will find me explaining to others if you search my post history for Byzantium.
However your abrasivness and general negativity are very off putting and is rather spend my time doing something more positive.
yyyyzryrd Jun 27, 2017 @ 10:42am 
Originally posted by tonypa:
Because Paradox keeps fixing AI,
Allies don't seem that smart yet, as in stacking their armies for the greater cause. My greatest run was as the Ottomans (who'd of figured). From Western Indian outskirts up to Moscow? St.Petersburg? I managaed this since the AI was too scared of my large stacks, though, it had an army around my size nearing the start. My allies had this same problem, too.
It's not a bug, it's just poor programming.
yyyyzryrd Jun 27, 2017 @ 10:45am 
Originally posted by Fedaykin:
Originally posted by Wilk Curator:
Not at start game. Not at all. It's very difficult for Hungary and Poland to not rival eachother (happened to me just about every Poland game so far). Getting an alliance with Austria is difficult as is already. So, good luck playing Byzantium. If you make it to 1450, good luck against Venice! Good luck against Mamlukeann allies if they beaat Ottomans too! Good luck restoring Greece even, Ottomans just expand asap to Candar and the other Turkish ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at start. Then take Byzantium. You can not gainy any power in the meantine, since, where can you really expand into? Venice? Likely not. Knights? Guaranteed by Mamluks. Crimea? You have a death wish bud? Ottomans? You sure you legit?
It still is possible, only if you wait and do literally nothing but wait till the Ottomans get rekt by other powers., while not getting rekt yourself if you are to have stronker ally hordes.

I've done Besillius and Restoing the Roman Empire as Byzantium. If you play using traditional strategies such as you would use for a 1-3 province country, you will likely fail.

There are several strategies that exist and are still valid. Including the ones I've used which you will find me explaining to others if you search my post history for Byzantium.
However your abrasivness and general negativity are very off putting and is rather spend my time doing something more positive.
Not sure what "traditional" strats are. I just tried playing Byzantium even just going my own way, tryna develop. You just get wiped when allies are too busy to help you out. It's just how allies are. And a small country is powerless against a superpower.
Also, about negativity. Sure, yeah, I get it. I am negative, and so what?
Laladen Jun 27, 2017 @ 11:05am 
Originally posted by Wilk Curator:
Originally posted by Fedaykin:

I've done Besillius and Restoing the Roman Empire as Byzantium. If you play using traditional strategies such as you would use for a 1-3 province country, you will likely fail.

There are several strategies that exist and are still valid. Including the ones I've used which you will find me explaining to others if you search my post history for Byzantium.
However your abrasivness and general negativity are very off putting and is rather spend my time doing something more positive.
Not sure what "traditional" strats are. I just tried playing Byzantium even just going my own way, tryna develop. You just get wiped when allies are too busy to help you out. It's just how allies are. And a small country is powerless against a superpower.
Also, about negativity. Sure, yeah, I get it. I am negative, and so what?

Originally posted by Wilk Curator:
And a small country is powerless against a superpower.

That last quote was the funny part.

Your playing traditional. Make a claim. Develop to remove relations malus. Hope & pray to get an alliance with a big. Play on speed 5 for 75% of the game hoping Poland or Hungary give you scraps.

You have to play in a very extreme manner to have a chance with Byzantium, in any patch. Now its harder to get the alliances due to the to many relations malus.

In 1.17 I had to restart literally like 100 times to get it right. That has not changed. Byzantium is supposed to die. Hard. One of the Ottomans first missions is to take Constantinople. To reverse the dieing? That a very serious challenge.

First you either need to stop the first war against you or you need to win the first war against you. Both paths are possible. The second option has several ways to accomplish.

Every single Byzantium strategy is LUCK based. You will have to repeat them over and over until it works perfectly and this country is rivaled to that country etc etc.

It's even more luck based now that it was; since your opening strategy may work flawlessly, preventing (and severely hampering Ottomans) the first war or winning the first war and getting some cores back. Then after all that, you may not get the alliances you need to continue the game. I would honestly roll back the patch version to 1.17 to prevent insanity.




yyyyzryrd Jun 27, 2017 @ 11:19am 
Originally posted by Fedaykin:
Originally posted by Wilk Curator:
Not sure what "traditional" strats are. I just tried playing Byzantium even just going my own way, tryna develop. You just get wiped when allies are too busy to help you out. It's just how allies are. And a small country is powerless against a superpower.
Also, about negativity. Sure, yeah, I get it. I am negative, and so what?

Originally posted by Wilk Curator:
And a small country is powerless against a superpower.

That last quote was the funny part.

Every single Byzantium strategy is LUCK based. You will have to repeat them over and over until it works perfectly and this country is rivaled to that country etc etc.
Funny? k. Don't see how at all.

The fact it is 100% luck is why it is such a bad mechanic. It requires no skill, seemingly. It can be something to not happen when you are trying, but rather something by accident. I'm not even an actual game developer, just learning how to make a text-based game, and really? RNG for everything? Go play Warframe. RNG is just being lazy, trust me, I would know. This goes for achivements at least. The game, it should be different depending how the player chooses to go down, as in which path they go down. Then, to further condense that gameplay, add RNG for those paths (militarist or diplomat favored events depending on recent actions).
Nedyahlz Jun 27, 2017 @ 11:33am 
If anyone cares. I did find a way to ally both poland,sebia, and the Lithuaians. It involved getting the advisor to make improving relations faster so you can get a royal marriage, which makes it possible to get an alliance. If you need a extra boost for getting a alliance/marriage fire your advisor and replace with the diplomatic reputation advisor. Poland may also need a gift of 100 gold
which you can raise by selling your cogs after moving your troops to Morea
Last edited by Nedyahlz; Jun 27, 2017 @ 11:33am
Laladen Jun 27, 2017 @ 11:57am 
Originally posted by Wilk Curator:
Originally posted by Fedaykin:



That last quote was the funny part.

Every single Byzantium strategy is LUCK based. You will have to repeat them over and over until it works perfectly and this country is rivaled to that country etc etc.
Funny? k. Don't see how at all.

The fact it is 100% luck is why it is such a bad mechanic. It requires no skill, seemingly. It can be something to not happen when you are trying, but rather something by accident. I'm not even an actual game developer, just learning how to make a text-based game, and really? RNG for everything? Go play Warframe. RNG is just being lazy, trust me, I would know. This goes for achivements at least. The game, it should be different depending how the player chooses to go down, as in which path they go down. Then, to further condense that gameplay, add RNG for those paths (militarist or diplomat favored events depending on recent actions).

The randomness that your feeling is the alliances and rivalries portion of the strat. That is indeed random. The fact is as Byzantium, you can utterly wreck the Ottomans right from the beginning of the game and set them back 10-15 years, you just can't get any of your cores back in doing so (you can get land however). Doing this method allows you time to get your alliances so you can then use a combo of using Skandebeg / Neutral-strait (Corfu, Negroponte, Naxos. Yes this means you have to restart until Venice does not rival you since you need access) strategies or loans ->Heavy ship strait blocking and holding Constantinople & Edirne (sp?)

Your throwing a tantrum because you can't find an easy casual path to get a very hard achievement. Byzantium is supposed to die. The game starts literally a few years before Byzantium was wiped out in actual history. It dies in 99.9% of games in the first year or two of any game.. If your seeing a successful Byzantium, its either player controlled or someone released Byzantium wholesale in a peace deal (very rare). The great part about this achievement is that it is hard.
Last edited by Laladen; Jun 27, 2017 @ 12:11pm
Diveyoc Jun 27, 2017 @ 12:05pm 
There are some map spawns that it seems you just cannot win with Byzantium, you'll have to restart. I've played this like 100 times in the last month. I'm now up to about a 10% successful start percentage.

> At the start, rival the Ottomans and improve relations with Hungary and Poland. If one of them also has Otto's as a rival, you can likely get them as an ally without sending a gift.

> Good secondary allies are, Serbia, Bosnia, Ragusa, Wallachio, and Karaman. Actually, these are pretty much the only allies you can get, other than Georgia to Crimea area which you really don't want to war in that area.

> Focus 100% on Otto's. If you attack anyone else, you're just allowing the Otto's to grow stronger.

> I usually don't pick up Mamluks as an ally until late 1400's, they never want to ally me until then anyways. Austria is never an option for me. Even when I finally can ally them I don't, because they usually just drag you into unwanted wars.

> Currently I have the Commonwealth, Bosnia, Bohemia, and Mamluks as allies. What I find hardest when trying to achieve restoring Rome is expanding into Europe fast enough. I currently just won a war against Venice, but Venice, France, Aragon, and Naples are all allied in some way, shape or form making it hard to attack the Italian peninsula.

> Otto's were no longer a threat by late 1400's and now they are gone by 1550 or so.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=957456774

Edit: And I swear, Quarantine the port event has happend to me like 50 times, no lie. absolutely ridiculous RNG if you want to call it that.
Last edited by Diveyoc; Jun 27, 2017 @ 12:09pm
kaiyl_kariashi Jun 27, 2017 @ 12:05pm 
Because Byzantium is a doomed nation.

Everything in the game is stacked against them just like it ultimately happened in history. It takes some real decisive action and heaping helping of luck to make something happen.


Though I've always found the best course of action is to Vassalize Albania and then conquer Bosnia/serbia/wallachia. Skandebeg is a powerful force if you've actually got something resembling a real military to attach him to. When the war finally came i was able to stack wipe the Ottomans Balken forces and their anatolian forces weren't big enough to risk a fight until after i'd taken Edirne when they finally rebuilt their balken troops which allowed me to get defender bonuses when they tried to cross. So I just sat back with everything the balkens conquered until they were ready to give me all my cores back and a little bit of bulgarian land which I released as a vassal for the next war. After which it was simply ensuring the Ottomans stay contained and couldn't build anything up. By then I had a navy of my own and could bait small forces of theirs into my land while a small force would go to the back of their empire and capture stuff until they were worn down and eventually balkanized and finally obliterated.

And removing Albania as a target tends to make the Ottomans turn towards the Beyliks instead, which buys you time to conquer some more territory which makes you look more lucrative as an ally.

Of course the whole strategy hangs on Skandebeg living long enough to make something happen.

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Date Posted: Jun 27, 2017 @ 9:37am
Posts: 208