Muscovite vs Russian ideas

[Mr.M]

What would you say?

Russians -10% Core cost and the +1 colonist are sweet, Muscovys ideas give a wee bit more military strength tho and -20% fort maintenance/Stab cost and +1 missionary strength/Tolerance of true Faith are pretty neat and a good combo for religious ideas

[Miles]

Muscovite>Russian

[xXxHussarxXx]

What about German vs Prussian?

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by xXxHussarxXx:

What about German vs Prussian?

Are you serious? xD

[xXxHussarxXx]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Originally posted by xXxHussarxXx:

What about German vs Prussian?

Are you serious? xD

had a question

[tonypa]

Russian ideas are for expanding (+33% National manpower modifier + −10% Core-creation cost + −10% Aggressive expansion impact + +1 Colonists). Muscovy ideas are for holding your own borders and integrating vassals.

I think Prussian ideas are in general considered the best in whole game if you ever plan to go into war and conquer any land.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

What if you want to expand, hold what you have, and are done with vassals?

[Valar Morghulis]

Originally posted by tiberiansun371alexw:

What if you want to expand, hold what you have, and are done with vassals?

Make a custom nation.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

I meant within the OP's situation. A moscovy start

[tonypa]

I still think Russian ideas are great and Muscovy ideas not very. I would change to Russian ideas as soon as possible.

In my current game (1688, they both got mil tech 20) Muscovy is beating up Ottos even when Ottos have larger army. They were struggling as Muscovy, never got rid of Novgorod until now, and lost land to Poland which they later recovered.

[Mr.M]

As said above - Muscovy got better military ideas and some neat extras, yet Russia got exra colonist and core cost reduction.

-10% aint much tho, and all that siberian land aint too good either.

[tonypa]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

As said above - Muscovy got better military ideas and some neat extras, yet Russia got exra colonist and core cost reduction.

What in Muscovy ideas is so much better for military?

Muscovy:
+10% Shock damage
+0.5 Yearly army tradition
+10% Morale of armies
+33% Land force limit modifier

Russia:
+33% National manpower modifier
+10% Artillery combat ability
+50% Land force limit modifier
+0.25 Yearly army tradition
+5% Morale of armies
−10% Fire damage received

The difference I see is Muscovy gets +10% Shock Damage, 0.25 more yearly Army tradition, 5% more Morale. Russia has 27% more land force, 33% more Manpower, +10% Artillery combat and -10% fire damage received. They look fairly equal to me.

[Mr.M]

Fire dmg becomes important lategame, shock dmg is better early on

And 0.25 more army trad aint that much, yet gives about 1% extra morale and chance of a better general.

I am not counting Land Force Limit and Extra Manpower to military strength as it also depends on the economy whether or not you can actually field extra units

[tonypa]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

I am not counting Land Force Limit and Extra Manpower to military strength as it also depends on the economy

Well, in the end, everything depends on the economy.

Yet, if we only compare military ideas, we can assume economy is same. So if one country gets more manpower and more armies using exactly same (or fairly similar) economy, I would say it has advantage when fighting in the wars.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Extra manpower means you don't need to rely on expensive mercs. Or that bug where the peasant's war can be triggered multiple times in a cmpaign when manpower is low (did they fix that bug? I'm three patches behind)

[tonypa]

Originally posted by tiberiansun371alexw:

Extra manpower means you don't need to rely on expensive mercs. Or that bug where the peasant's war can be triggered multiple times in a cmpaign when manpower is low (did they fix that bug? I'm three patches behind)

Not sure if that is the Peasant War bug you mention:

Update: 25 Jul, 2016, v1.25.10 Patch:

"Peasants War should no longer be a death spiral, reoccuring every couple years."