Ottomans (near)Invincible if they have Janissaries?

[Silver Felyne]

I've tried again and again, trying to beat the Ottomans as Ming.
Despite impressive (I think) troops, Ottomans having almost no manpower, and busy with another war against Austria. I could not beat their troops, and they also fielded at least 4 two star generals at once. Year 1550, equal tech.

A real shame, as I had a prime time to force them out of their Alliances with Muscovy and France.

[chazla20]

What's the morale and discipline of your troops? I have never played Ming so I do not know the military bonuses given/available.

I know Ottomans have a high discipline due to the Janissaries but you should be able to best them with morale. Defensive is a good military group to boost army tradition +1/morale +15% early game. Usually I take defensive as my 2nd idea group no matter what country I am playing.

[HappyMooMoo]

'Alliances with Muscovy and France' quite a bit of your problem lies in that ... Basically with the Ottomans they're bound to be OP as hell for till like mid 1600's.They were designed to be like that as if you have Mandate of Heaven their golden age is till 1500. Jannisaries and their national ideas are one of the stronger set in the game. Add to this standard bonuses available to all nations including military idea groups, good generals, good army tradition, good tech, and good alliances (your situation). But there is one blessing, they really start to fall off with the quality of their armies and Janissary Decadence and what not by around mid 1600 and onwards. They also tend to be plagued with several large quantities of rebels across such a broad and diverse empire, which AI's have a big problem managing.

Till then you should pursue alliances perhaps with Poland-Lithuania or Austria or whoever they're also enemies with. Basically in wars against them its important to keep your troops close together so you can reinforce for huge battles. Although tbh, even if you lose a few provinces to them its not the end of the world, they can be reclaimed later on when as explained before they simply begin to decline. Of course, as said by previous commenter, work on your own military qualities, discipline, morale, tech, good generals, and etc to be able to confront them most optimally.

[Silver Felyne]

Originally posted by chazla20:

What's the morale and discipline of your troops? I have never played Ming so I do not know the military bonuses given/available.

I know Ottomans have a high discipline due to the Janissaries but you should be able to best them with morale. Defensive is a good military group to boost army tradition +1/morale +15% early game. Usually I take defensive as my 2nd idea group no matter what country I am playing.

Janissaries also give +10 Infantry Combat Ability, and Ottomans took Offensive. (Also they have 12 pips to my 10).

It's frustrating to not be able to confront them until after they "Decline"

[HappyMooMoo]

lmao, if you think its frustrating fighting them as Ming, then try fighting them as any Balkan minor. Byzantium, Serbia, Wallachia and etc ... Then you'll know what frustrating truly means. Only removed them once in one out of several thousand unsuccessful attempts as Serbia many patches ago.

[Silver Felyne]

Originally posted by HappyMooMoo:

lmao, if you think its frustrating fighting them as Ming, then try fighting them as any Balkan minor. Byzantium, Serbia, Wallachia and etc ... Then you'll know what frustrating truly means. Only removed them once in one out of several thousand unsuccessful attempts as Serbia many patches ago.

You don't have to deal with their Janissary Modifier as a Balkan minor, because if they get it you've already failed.

[of Anwyl]

Originally posted by HappyMooMoo:

lmao, if you think its frustrating fighting them as Ming, then try fighting them as any Balkan minor. Byzantium, Serbia, Wallachia and etc ... Then you'll know what frustrating truly means. Only removed them once in one out of several thousand unsuccessful attempts as Serbia many patches ago.

Dealing withem as a balkan power is easier because they start off with half their cores owned by enemies and half their territory is orthodox. Balkan minors can also get naval superiority which is all that they really need to beat the ottomans.