anyone else think spain is broken?

[lokk23]

Id say its about 80% of my games iberia goes the same way; iberian wedding, spain eats/allies portugal, usually allies with other big players mainly france/austria, colonizes almost all of the new world depending on their relationship with portugal, gets to and stays #1 world power with huge armies, and high morale/discipline. Naval supremacy is impossible unless your great britan or something, and they have a high force limit from their hundred colonies that never break free. The standard for the games I play is that spain rises to ottoman levels of power basically for free; little competition in the new world, free pu over aragon and naples (less naples these days from their independence event) and ive never seen them fall apart once spain forms. If they dont lose their first wars to morocco they tend to stay in top 2 of great powers the rest of the game. Its especially a problem when they become defenders of the faith because then they get involved in everything, and it forces the game to a halt if you dont start out as another powerhouse nation. Now i know people say its historical and blah blah, but gameplay wise they get too strong with no effort and just get in the way of playing the game. Wanna colonize? gotta kill spain. Want trade past sevilla? gotta kill spain. need to take corsica for the dozens of missions there are for it? gotta kill spain. How are you supposed to deal with them if youre a german or italian country and they easily have twice your force limit and ally the only people strong enough to fight them?

[bri]

It's not so much Spain is broken as their usual counter-weights France and the Ottomans are pretty weak (relative to their power in other versions of the game) in the current build. Without someone powerful keeping them in check they are allowed to run wild...

[Yaldabaoth]

Boost your discipline and army moral, build a fort in your best defensive terrain. Annihilate any army they send to you. If the AI goes hard on colonization, their troops will be all over the place anyway. In that case, you might be able to sink a transport fleet while it ferries the troops, sinking troops with it and isolating the rest overseas.

[Saeko]

I think the main problem, is the bonus they get with the colonise range + the lucky nation bonus.

I wish they remove lucky bonus from the top faction that would make the game a little more random.

In my game usually its the poland > two nation who get defender of faith and get big. they even kiiling russia/australia/ottoman in my games now and being defender of the faith.

[lokk23]

yeah i never see the ottomans and spain fight outside of the league war, and if they have a border its because one of them has conquered all of north africa and are already way stronger than the other. Spain definitely seems too inclined to ally austria and france for them to ever be a real counter to them, i mostly see them rival england but nothing ever happens between them outside colonial wars.

[Dancing Dragon Games]

This is a historical simulation, not something designed to be gentle for your fee-fees. During much of this time period in history, Castile/Spain was a dominant power, sometimes bordering on a world superpower status.

And true to history again, Spain (if controlled by AI) really falls off its prime once you hit 1700 or so. Sometimes even earlier. The lands of Iberia are quite poor compared to those of the rest of Western Europe, so unless they have a gigantic empire, their growth is much more limited than for example someone with hegemonic control over the French, Italian, or especially the Germanic areas.

[lokk23]

I dont see them fall apart late game, which is one of the reasons i have a problem with spain. Every other power that gets annoyingly strong like spain does actually has to pass some initial challenges to get that far. France has to get their land from england/hre, england has to unite the british isles, the ottomans and mamluks have to beat each other, the timurids have to keep their vassals under control, and ming has to not fall apart. On the other hand castille's only real threat is france and alot of the time theyre allies. Even if they lose a war or two to aragon they still get the wedding and make them a junior partner. The quality of their land doesnt matter either since they can easily colonize which give them plenty of force limit and more than enough money to use it. I said it in the main post but im less concerned that its historical and more concerned about the gameplay aspects. Fighting them is a pain like fighting late game ming or ottomans, except they dont surrender when full occupied because they want you to go siege their 10 colonies on the other side of the world.

[PeGa]

I can assume that you just don't have enough experience in the game. During patch 1.30, the AI was too mediocre to resist the player, even if the player started out as an OPM. And after the emergence of absolutism, you can destroy any nation in just one war, capturing all the key provinces

[lokk23]

Nope, ive got over 1000 hours in the game and its what ive seen of spain across tons of patches and playthroughs.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by bri:

It's not so much Spain is broken as their usual counter-weights France and the Ottomans are pretty weak (relative to their power in other versions of the game) in the current build. Without someone powerful keeping them in check they are allowed to run wild...

There's something hilarious about people complaining Spain is too powerful after years of its main rivals getting nerfed every update... because people kept complaining they were too powerful.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

There's something hilarious about people complaining Spain is too powerful after years of its main rivals getting nerfed every update... because people kept complaining they were too powerful.

Lol, yeah. And its main rivals weren't too powerful to begin with.

Really, there's only one good way to assess if an EU4 nation is too strong or not: when that nation is played by the AI, does it consistently over many hands-off playthroughs exceed its historical counterpart's results by a significant margin? If so, it's probably over-powered in comparison to its neighbors. They might need buffing, or it might need nerfing. However, most of the "overpowered" complaints are about nations doing less than they did historically, but more than inept human players can handle. "I couldn't beat the Ottomans as Byzantium! Nerf them!!!"

It's sad.

[∫√(tanx)dx]

They also made Morocco AI weaker. They insta support sus independence, so Portugal just gets free land at the start of the game.

[∫√(tanx)dx]

But if I were you, id just restart until the AI choose "marry a local" instead of the PU on Aragon

[lokk23]

Ive noticed it as well that morroco seems to die alot and get eaten by portugal, and screwing with their vassals would explain it since thats the only thing they have going for them until they get that gold province.

[Mikey]

Originally posted by Dancing Dragon Games:

This is a historical simulation, not something designed to be gentle for your fee-fees. During much of this time period in history, Castile/Spain was a dominant power, sometimes bordering on a world superpower status.

And true to history again, Spain (if controlled by AI) really falls off its prime once you hit 1700 or so. Sometimes even earlier. The lands of Iberia are quite poor compared to those of the rest of Western Europe, so unless they have a gigantic empire, their growth is much more limited than for example someone with hegemonic control over the French, Italian, or especially the Germanic areas.

The fertility of Iberia has nothing to do with their decline during the 17th and 18th centuries.
The vast amounts of wealth they brought in from their colonies were in large parts gold and silver which they used to buy goods from outside their realm. This caused a large growth in those nations production and trade capacities. In the mean time only a small portion of the wealth was kept inside the Spanish borders in the form of infrastructure and production investments, meaning they fell even further behind the other nations.
Over time the gold and silver income from the colonies stagnated and could no longer keep up with the ballooned needs of the empire and so the empire fell into disrepair as they still had not developed their own internal industry.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by Mikey:

Originally posted by Dancing Dragon Games:

This is a historical simulation, not something designed to be gentle for your fee-fees. During much of this time period in history, Castile/Spain was a dominant power, sometimes bordering on a world superpower status.

And true to history again, Spain (if controlled by AI) really falls off its prime once you hit 1700 or so. Sometimes even earlier. The lands of Iberia are quite poor compared to those of the rest of Western Europe, so unless they have a gigantic empire, their growth is much more limited than for example someone with hegemonic control over the French, Italian, or especially the Germanic areas.

The fertility of Iberia has nothing to do with their decline during the 17th and 18th centuries.
The vast amounts of wealth they brought in from their colonies were in large parts gold and silver which they used to buy goods from outside their realm. This caused a large growth in those nations production and trade capacities. In the mean time only a small portion of the wealth was kept inside the Spanish borders in the form of infrastructure and production investments, meaning they fell even further behind the other nations.
Over time the gold and silver income from the colonies stagnated and could no longer keep up with the ballooned needs of the empire and so the empire fell into disrepair as they still had not developed their own internal industry.

I think he's largely referring to in-game development, not real-world fertility.