Should I renovatio imperii?

[Natz]

Its the year 1635 and me & my princes own most of europe and russia.

I know most people suggests renovatio has to be done in the end game but I was stupidly canceling subjects from princes in spain and france to peace out coalition wars, it backfired as these princes joined the coalition against me later on.

So should i click that renovatio imperii button? what do you think?

[Psychotic Fury]

People only say to do it at end game to use the vassal swarm to fight wars for u. If u dont plan on vassal feeding half the world to ur subjects it doesnt matter when i do it.

[Natz]

Originally posted by Psychotic Fury:

People only say to do it at end game to use the vassal swarm to fight wars for u. If u dont plan on vassal feeding half the world to ur subjects it doesnt matter when i do it.

wont it decrease the number of troops i can field too? (including subjects)

[Shai-Hulud]

It will vastly reduce your military capacity. Your princes benefit from their own separate force limits, manpower pools, and generals.

All your princes have full states, you couldn't state all of their land yourself.

Not sure how many princes you have, but any coalition against you should be irrelevant.

[Sargon The Grape]

I would say hold off unless and until the vassals get unmanageable (ie liberty desire).

[Marcos_DS]

I wouldn't do it at all. You loose all the great boni you get from the HRE reforms, you loose the vassal swarm. If you don't want to use the vassal swarm, just put them all on scuttage for a nice income boost.

The vassals in the HRE don't have the normal vassal mechanic, they are instead similar to personal unions: Its not all vassal power summed up, but only each vassal by himself compared to you.

As long as you don't get vassals outside the HRE and keep a standing army at your force limit (most just infantry if money is a problem, they just count numbers, not type), you should be fine.

[Psychotic Fury]

Forgot to say, you can make them into marches for -15% lib desire (and yes they still intergrate).

Easiest thing to do apart from marches, is just keep using your prestige to lower it. If you go to war a decent amount you end up maxing it fast.

[nekoman]

You only really want to do it once at all for achievment and then never again. As people already said, you losee all those bonuses from reforms, losing unlimited vassals and for what? New idea set?

[Natz]

ok thx guys the last reform sounds bad

[hengepupper]

do it the last month so you get the achievement but otherwise no

[ZeratulR]

The idea that passing the final reform reduces your military capabilities is a common misconception. Yes, it reduces the total force limit and manpower of your side in a war, although if you are big enough to get to that reform the decrease in numbers won't probably be that critical. But there is another important thing. AI of subjects is a completely retarded idiot. The dumb mistakes it makes are just unthinkable. Abandoning sieges for no reason, getting stackwiped, suffering unreasonable attrition... In terms of military power you will be stronger commanding your troops yourself even if the total count of troops on your side will be lower.

Of course there are still reasons to keep the vassal swarm: imperial bonuses, unlimited vassal feeding and finally the ability to let the AI win wars himself. He does it in an incredibly inefficient, dumb and slow way but with overwhelming forces he does it, saving you a lot of clicks.

[bri]

Originally posted by ZeratulR:

The idea that passing the final reform reduces your military capabilities is a common misconception. Yes, it reduces the total force limit and manpower of your side in a war, although if you are big enough to get to that reform the decrease in numbers won't probably be that critical. But there is another important thing. AI of subjects is a completely retarded idiot. The dumb mistakes it makes are just unthinkable. Abandoning sieges for no reason, getting stackwiped, suffering unreasonable attrition... In terms of military power you will be stronger commanding your troops yourself even if the total count of troops on your side will be lower.

Of course there are still reasons to keep the vassal swarm: imperial bonuses, unlimited vassal feeding and finally the ability to let the AI win wars himself. He does it in an incredibly inefficient, dumb and slow way but with overwhelming forces he does it, saving you a lot of clicks.

This. Also, if your vassal horde and personal power isn't particularly overwhelming you run the risk of losing wars and having reforms revoked in the peace treaty. Generally not a problem but I've seen France+Spain+Ottoman+Russia alliances and the like that can pack a real punch if they come at you.