Help me I'm lost.

[TheDoctor]

So probably against my better judgement I have come back and considered giving this game another go despite it's utterly unhelpful interface that is dense beyond belief and the total lack of direction that it offers you almost as if it was designed to stop people even trying to play this game.

I booted it up and found the usual problem which is you just sit there and have no idea what you are meant to be doing. You have some notifications about various things that you can inspect and that is about all. Quite what you are meant to do about a lot of these things I don't know. You just sit there and watch things happens as you are given no direction or goal or objective.

I know there is no set goal as such, but you are just dumped into this map and are meant to somehow invent some purpose and deal with the completely hopeless way it is all presented to you. It's not that I can't work my way around the interface and take some of it in, but most times it's just information; stacks and stacks on information presented in the densest most intangible manner possible and no clues are given as to what you might want to do to fix things.

Is there any nation that actually gives you some sort of purpose to work towards from the start and maybe gives you some guidance as to what to build or do, or any sort of help at all? Without it the game is simply impossible to learn.

At least with a game like Civ you have a sort of structure where you can progress even if you don't know what you are really picking, you are still making progress towards something even if it is not optimal. Here you just load in and have no purpose or direction at all and you literally don't know what to press or do from the simply overwhelming selection of buttons that all lead to dead ends.

I've often wondered if the only people who play this game are those who worked on the development team, because it's a pretty horrific ask to expect anyone to work out what the hell is going on in this game.

[TheDoctor]

Originally posted by Ultrix Prime:

There are mission trees that guide you in expanding your nation

Where are these? I've never seen any form of guidance offered when you just pick a country and go.

[grotaclas]

open your missions ("F1" -> "8"). You can hover over these mission to see what you need to do to complete them. Most countries just have generic missions which don't give you a purpose, but many countries (especially the recommended ones) have extensive mission trees that gives you goals towards which you can work. Otherwise just try to conquer your neighbors by fabricating claims on them and then declaring conquest wars

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Originally posted by Ultrix Prime:

There are mission trees that guide you in expanding your nation

This.
Choose a strong(er) country with a unique mission tree and try to (more of less) follow it.
In Europe Portugal, Castile, England or Muscovy are good candidates (I haven't tried the new French and Austrian missions yet).

[TipuSultan]

It is overwhelming. I have thousands of hours in EU4 and am still constantly learning new aspects of the game. I recommend YouTube tutorials, such as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJfOQhpK30g.

Pick a country that interests you and then look at guides for how to play it. The Ottomans are a good starter as it is powerful.

Another crucial resource is the EUIV Wiki. Consult it as needed throughout a game. https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Europa_Universalis_4_Wiki

If you get frustrated, you can use Console commands to "cheat," although it helps you see how various parts of the game work: https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Console_commands I did this for hundreds of hours when I was starting out, but eventually it is much more fun playing Ironman, once you get more comfortable. But start on Very Easy as it is a difficult game. It gets much more fun once you understand more of what is going on.

Hopefully it will inspire you to learn more about the history of the era as well, the global spice trade, gunpowder empires in the Middle East and India, and the Ming dynasty. The world awaits your exploration. It is helpful to know a little about this history as it will be directly helpful in understanding the game and the mission system too. Changing history in the game is a great part of playing.

Hang in there! It's worth the frustration. I've rage quit EU4 many times, but glad I came back.

[Tohtori Leka]

It's not impossible to learn and not even horrific. It can seem like that if you expect it to be something that you can completely figure out with just a glance.

The basic goal in the game is to be the #1 nation in the world by the end of the game. There's a score for your nation and a ranking in different aspects. There are also the achievements and missions to give you some goals to work towards but other than that it's completely up to you to decide what you want to do. Of course you don't have to do the missions and achievements if you want to do something different.

[Vic 20]

Some nations can form other nations as well, like Brandenburg can form Prussia and then form Germany if you get all the required provinces.

[yobnedov]

I recommend you, especially if you like history, that you begin by role playing with a country whose history you know well and try to get to its prime form by doing the things it did back in time. For instance with Castile you should try to form Spain, annex Portugal, expand all over the Americas and the Philippines while you aim to get the inheritance for Burgundy, a PU over Milan and keep Austria as an ally.

[Nyo]

I 've learned actual world history playing the game (with countless restarts and savegames).
Just play it without thinking about (ever) arriving to the end.

[TheDoctor]

Just tried playing as castile but it's still absolutely horrific; there's just no means to progress. Even reading the missions which are better than nothing, but really don't tell you how to progress, there's just no progression loop which is the problem. It's a sandbox with a bad interface and absolutely zero instruction provided.

The biggest problem is that the game is just too aimless and the interface is just as bad as it comes... it's stacked with figures and data that means nothing, too many layers of modifiers on top of modifiers all interweaved in a massive mess to the point that you have no idea what influences what and how you can interact with it. The result is that any data that might be useful to you is obscured from a sensible view that might inform you of what is going on or what to do.

I honestly don't see how anyone ever gets into this game. If there was a learning curve it would be tolerable, but you can't even play the "game" at all ... you literally just sit there not knowing what all this ♥♥♥♥ is and how to interact with it.

It all feels like a waste of an interesting game in concept. Shame I'm not one of the developers who actually know how to play it because I honestly don't see how anyone else can have a clue what is going on.

I just can't get over how dense the interface is though... I know I've said it ten times but it's unimaginable how they came up with this. Numbers numbers and numbers, modifiers all stacked up, tangled with all sorts of other nonsense that is utterly foreign all hidden away in 300 menu tabs .... they honestly deserve an award for making something that is so user unfriendly and I assume it's the number one reason almost no-one knows how to even play this game.

[Shai-Hulud]

When I was new this was my approach:

Start as a nation you find interesting. It will be easier if this is a powerful nation, Ottomans and Portugal are commonly recommended. My first few games were with Ethiopia though.

Deal with notifications at the top of the screen to the best of your ability, and start letting time pass.

Build spy networks to fabricate conquest claims on your neighbors, and start fighting.

Play non-ironman, because then you can reload the game if you make serious, correctable errors. Still, your first few games will most likely not amount to anything besides a restart. Everyone went through it, there's a lot to digest.

Still, games are played for fun. If you feel no excitement or anticipation while playing the game, maybe it's not for you.

I hate advising people to go watch long YouTube videos to figure out how to play a game, but maybe doing so will actually be less time consuming - at least in determining if you actually will enjoy the game.

[Mando]

Originally posted by TheDoctor:

Just tried playing as castile but it's still absolutely horrific; there's just no means to progress. Even reading the missions which are better than nothing, but really don't tell you how to progress, there's just no progression loop which is the problem. It's a sandbox with a bad interface and absolutely zero instruction provided.

The biggest problem is that the game is just too aimless and the interface is just as bad as it comes... it's stacked with figures and data that means nothing, too many layers of modifiers on top of modifiers all interweaved in a massive mess to the point that you have no idea what influences what and how you can interact with it. The result is that any data that might be useful to you is obscured from a sensible view that might inform you of what is going on or what to do.

I honestly don't see how anyone ever gets into this game. If there was a learning curve it would be tolerable, but you can't even play the "game" at all ... you literally just sit there not knowing what all this ♥♥♥♥ is and how to interact with it.

It all feels like a waste of an interesting game in concept. Shame I'm not one of the developers who actually know how to play it because I honestly don't see how anyone else can have a clue what is going on.

I just can't get over how dense the interface is though... I know I've said it ten times but it's unimaginable how they came up with this. Numbers numbers and numbers, modifiers all stacked up, tangled with all sorts of other nonsense that is utterly foreign all hidden away in 300 menu tabs .... they honestly deserve an award for making something that is so user unfriendly and I assume it's the number one reason almost no-one knows how to even play this game.

The game play loop is conquer->wait for aggressive expansion to go down-> rinse and repeat i don't see what is so complicated about that, i think your problem is your not imaginative enough to set your own goals because that is what the game is about. the interface is literally so simple a monkey could probably figure it out. people gave you guides and ideas on what to do after reading through all the posts i feel like your just here for attention since you where given plenty of resources to have a monkeys idea of whats going on and your still complaining that the game sucks, go back to civilization then.

[jfoytek]

Originally posted by TheDoctor:

Just tried playing as castile but it's still absolutely horrific; there's just no means to progress. Even reading the missions which are better than nothing, but really don't tell you how to progress, there's just no progression loop which is the problem. It's a sandbox with a bad interface and absolutely zero instruction provided.

The biggest problem is that the game is just too aimless and the interface is just as bad as it comes... it's stacked with figures and data that means nothing, too many layers of modifiers on top of modifiers all interweaved in a massive mess to the point that you have no idea what influences what and how you can interact with it. The result is that any data that might be useful to you is obscured from a sensible view that might inform you of what is going on or what to do.

I honestly don't see how anyone ever gets into this game. If there was a learning curve it would be tolerable, but you can't even play the "game" at all ... you literally just sit there not knowing what all this ♥♥♥♥ is and how to interact with it.

It all feels like a waste of an interesting game in concept. Shame I'm not one of the developers who actually know how to play it because I honestly don't see how anyone else can have a clue what is going on.

I just can't get over how dense the interface is though... I know I've said it ten times but it's unimaginable how they came up with this. Numbers numbers and numbers, modifiers all stacked up, tangled with all sorts of other nonsense that is utterly foreign all hidden away in 300 menu tabs .... they honestly deserve an award for making something that is so user unfriendly and I assume it's the number one reason almost no-one knows how to even play this game.

I don't know how to ask this without sounding condescending?
Why do you need to be told what to do and how does being told what to do make a game more fun???

I am totally your opposite in games and I just don't understand how anyone can play
Linear - On Rails - Games that Hold your hand so tight you can't do anything you want to do?!?

And finally!

How do you make a Grand Strategy game about infinite choice on rails and give it direction and why on earth would you?!?

I have absolutely zero issue with the Interface but then I suppose having played
HoI <--- the Original
CK <--- the Original
EU <--- the Original
Victoria <---- the Original

lol I wish I could put lock you into a prison cell with only Victoria II

Oh that would be hillarious!!!

Paradox's interface is very intuitive for paradox fans as it doesn't change a lot from game to game.... Well then Wiz - Martin jumped off the deep end at did away with Pops in Stellaris and turned it into the most convoluted mess ever! "But yet main stream gamer's love the new change and I despise it!"

But before I get sidetracked perhaps you should just go play some easier titles like pick up a copy of HoI2 Arsenal of Democracy was my particular favorite, the interface itself is likely a bit more convoluted but the game on a whole is pretty simple and if you can master those older games UI's then the new games which are far more stream lined should be no problem for you....

but ultimately in the words of a famous Feminist low life said
"I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle In Time" says "It wasn’t made for him!

Well maybe this game wasn't made for you!

[TheDoctor]

There's a difference between hand-holding and having a purpose of direction. Having that direction is even more important in a game like this where everything is so obscured and non-intuitive.

It would benefit greatly from having a "campaign" of sorts where you are given objectives to complete. The sandbox mode is fine if you understand what is going on and how to make things happen, but that mode alone seems incredibly poor as a method for teaching the game.

[jfoytek]

Originally posted by TheDoctor:

There's a difference between hand-holding and having a purpose of direction. Having that direction is even more important in a game like this where everything is so obscured and non-intuitive.

It would benefit greatly from having a "campaign" of sorts where you are given objectives to complete. The sandbox mode is fine if you understand what is going on and how to make things happen, but that mode alone seems incredibly poor as a method for teaching the game.

NO absolutely NOT!!!

If I want to sit down and Make a Muslim France that Conquers Africa then that's what I am going to do today! And now I have to figure out how to make that happen!

Or If I want to make a Jewish Ditmarshen be the first to colonize Canada then I need to figure out how to do that!

Or if I want to make a Danish Kilwa that practices Sikh faith and has colonized every island in the Pacific ocean then thats what I am going to do today!

Its about using the thing between your ears to create your never ending list of strange goals that then gives the game infinite replayability!

But if you need your Hand Held then may I suggest you play as Portugal and Try to re-create modern day Brazil.... They you go you now have a purpose and I picked a very easy task for you as Portugal is the most over powered colonial nation in the game and its almost impossible to not be able to accomplish this but you seem like you need that type of challenge!!!

[jfoytek]

Originally posted by Ultrix Prime:

Originally posted by jfoytek:

NO absolutely NOT!!!

If I want to sit down and Make a Muslim France that Conquers Africa then that's what I am going to do today! And now I have to figure out how to make that happen!

Or If I want to make a Jewish Ditmarshen be the first to colonize Canada then I need to figure out how to do that!

Or if I want to make a Danish Kilwa that practices Sikh faith and has colonized every island in the Pacific ocean then thats what I am going to do today!

Its about using the thing between your ears to create your never ending list of strange goals that then gives the game infinite replayability!

But if you need your Hand Held then may I suggest you play as Portugal and Try to re-create modern day Brazil.... They you go you now have a purpose and I picked a very easy task for you as Portugal is the most over powered colonial nation in the game and its almost impossible to not be able to accomplish this but you seem like you need that type of challenge!!!

Well there’s role playing too without strange goals

Absolutely you don't have to go non historical I was doing so in the post for the outlandishness of the picture...

In my current game Bavaria is the Staunch and Noble Catholic Defender of the Empire and defender of the Free City's the most benevolent of Emperor's where no one dares counquer their neighbor Or I will demand they return that land and if they do not head my warning then their land will be under new management!