how to defeat ming as Manchu?!?!? screen shot included.

[hottwiz]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=800952363
since i cannot take on ming 1v1 i've been going around conquering which has screwed me over that and bad leaders :( and at this rate i will conqer the whole world before i attack ming HELP!

[Degenerate Trap]

Relax~ it's only 1500s, make more states for land limits, go with administation idea for coring cost, then invade India, you only need northern half of India to build up a power base to kill Ming. Ally with all his rival, cut him off from anything he has, then wait for a revolt or just kill him. Ming is really weak because it's too big to advance properly.

[Mikey]

wait it out. Eventually Ming will collapse in on itself and you can quickly overrun the pieces that are left.

[hottwiz]

Originally posted by Stranded Deep:

Relax~ it's only 1500s, make more states for land limits, go with administation idea for coring cost, then invade India, you only need northern half of India to build up a power base to kill Ming. Ally with all his rival, cut him off from anything he has, then wait for a revolt or just kill him. Ming is really weak because it's too big to advance properly.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=801012954
just what i thought would happen :(
i got to big to handle horde unity plus rebels everywhere,on top of that over 3000ducats in debt.
so i got dow by ming and koroa twice,then brankrupt,then broken by rebels 2 or 3 times and went into a internal conflet followed by a horde disater...

now after everything i have a good leader and a full army stack but no cores on the 300-600 dev i lost besides what i lost to ming and korea
SIDE NOTE ♥♥♥♥ like this always happens around 1500 in any of my games :(

[Anaverageguy41]

Originally posted by hottwiz:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=801012954
just what i thought would happen :(
i got to big to handle horde unity plus rebels everywhere,on top of that over 3000ducats in debt.
so i got dow by ming and koroa twice,then brankrupt,then broken by rebels 2 or 3 times and went into a internal conflet followed by a horde disater...

now after everything i have a good leader and a full army stack but no cores on the 300-600 dev i lost besides what i lost to ming and korea
SIDE NOTE ♥♥♥♥ like this always happens around 1500 in any of my games :(

Then start supporting rebels in ming,
don't go that much into debt I genuinely don't understand how you've managed to go that deep
A good trick for hordes is to keep a opm around to beat up every now and then as a means of keeping yourself at war.
Buy up the Renaissance asap too

[hottwiz]

Originally posted by Anaverageguy41:

Originally posted by hottwiz:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=801012954
just what i thought would happen :(
i got to big to handle horde unity plus rebels everywhere,on top of that over 3000ducats in debt.
so i got dow by ming and koroa twice,then brankrupt,then broken by rebels 2 or 3 times and went into a internal conflet followed by a horde disater...

now after everything i have a good leader and a full army stack but no cores on the 300-600 dev i lost besides what i lost to ming and korea
SIDE NOTE ♥♥♥♥ like this always happens around 1500 in any of my games :(

Then start supporting rebels in ming,
don't go that much into debt I genuinely don't understand how you've managed to go that deep
A good trick for hordes is to keep a opm around to beat up every now and then as a means of keeping yourself at war.
Buy up the Renaissance asap too

after almost 2000 hours when it comes to some nations i just can never make a profit like when i play a horde.good news is i have a save from 1483 so i can reload that and give it another shot a couple days from now when i don'y want to die in a corner.

1.i did get the renaissance right away!
2.i did not have the money for rebels :(
3.any tips for staying afloat because that calvary is very expensive even when i have that -20 cav cost and looting everything to the ground.

[Jiuchen]

you can to attack Ming when it self-exploding.

[hottwiz]

Originally posted by Jiuchen:

you can to attack Ming when it self-exploding.

yeah i can't wait that long as they had a 4,5,5 with 3 stab if i remeber. mean while my horde unity is ticking down 4-5 a year.

[ඞ]

If horde Unity is a Problem, Just disable the Cossacks DLC.

Although you do miss out on Razing provinces, im pretty sure not having to worry about a ticking political timebomb is a big plus.

Then again, I dont own the DLC, so idk the pros and cons from firsthand experiance, just what ive heard/read on the wiki.

[hottwiz]

Originally posted by 🇲🇦🇾🇴🇳🇦🇳🇺🇸 🇻-🇵🇴🇼🇪🇷:

If horde Unity is a Problem, Just disable the Cossacks DLC.

Although you do miss out on Razing provinces, im pretty sure not having to worry about a ticking political timebomb is a big plus.

Then again, I dont own the DLC, so idk the pros and cons from firsthand experiance, just what ive heard/read on the wiki.

hummmm ill look into that

[Jiuchen]

You have 2 advantages.the army of high quality.the terrible land.So I think you can start a war of attrition.They will help you consuming manpower of Ming.

[wakey wakey]

Dissable ming early. It requires a lot of restarts but if you got all the other hordes early it's a piece of cake. Even Mings early 60k doomstacks stand no chance to your units if you watch for the terrain.

If you let them live as long as you did it's your own fault, either you do a wq attempt with horde goverment and be in constant wars until the end or you reform at some point which you clearly passed. Dunno if I play a eastern horde in sp I try to get them down asap after conquering/vassalizing everthing except mongolia/korea.

Edit: to me it just looks like a wq attempt gone wrong because you didn't pulled the constant war thing off at some point and because of that losing too much horde unity. Ming itself is not a real enemy at all especially in the early game with your superiour troops + a 2-3 or even more shock general.

[hottwiz]

Originally posted by wakey wakey:

Dissable ming early. It requires a lot of restarts but if you got all the other hordes early it's a piece of cake. Even Mings early 60k doomstacks stand no chance to your units if you watch for the terrain.

If you let them live as long as you did it's your own fault, either you do a wq attempt with horde goverment and be in constant wars until the end or you reform at some point which you clearly passed. Dunno if I play a eastern horde in sp I try to get them down asap after conquering/vassalizing everthing except mongolia/korea.

Edit: to me it just looks like a wq attempt gone wrong because you didn't pulled the constant war thing off at some point and because of that losing too much horde unity. Ming itself is not a real enemy at all especially in the early game with your superiour troops + a 2-3 or even more shock general.

YEEEEEAAAH NO TO THE WC. an you may be right about ming being easily taken down early on due to attrition combinded with a good general but i did not feel "strong" enough to do it.

[equinox1911]

I am confused, you obviously know how to play the game and none of you screenshots look like you should have any trouble taking ming down in well timed war (beurocrats in power). Obviously the earlier the better but i think i did it just ~ 10 years ahead of you. Just kill their trash troops with your 100% cav armies, let them come to your steppes and stackwipe them for a year or so.

[derfan]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=801187573

i killed ming as manchu on very hard before 1500.

you have to attack him as soon as possible.
his 1 1 1 leader at the start will make sure that you get 1-2 mil tecs above him, also he will get -50 prestige for killing his son, so stackwipes are alot more common cause of low morale.
get as much cav as possible (i had 12) so you can stack wipe his 30 unit stacks that he will throw at you.
you also need a dizi advisor. morale will not help to stackwipe.

at game start:
1) make sure that you got a general with at least 4 shock (your national ideas give +1, so its not hard to get). if you dont get one, you should restart,
2) force mingplosion by marriage
->marrie him, insult him -> he will break you marriage and lose 1 stab -> he will lose mandate of heaven.
it is important, that he accept your marriage by about only 1 point in positiv while you have a +1 dip advisor.
so from now on you just do: marri him, embark him (you must have negative relations) and then remove you dip advisor.
he will break the marriage again.
coniune this until hes hat -3 stab and hold him on that till you are ready to kill him.
on very hard, he will still have about 120 units, but most of them will be mercanaries.

dont fear him. your units are like 3 times as stong as his. you can take him with 17 of your units and 60 of his and you will still win with only a few death.
but do it before he reaches mil tec 4.
(bonus is to wait till manchu nationalist spawn, so u will get 4 provinzes for free and sometimes that rebells also siege other provinzes, where you get also a free core on if the rebells win totally)

[AdahnGorion]

Well you can let us tell you how to play (that is no gurantie of success) or you can do like most of us does trial and error. its on of the reasons I love this game, you can sometimes be unlucky with stuff you can't control and that is awesome! I mean if people just wanna win and always get their goals, then they should just cheat.. because then that is what they want.

I make goals, but I reevalutate them when stuff does not go as planned.