Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

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楚哲 Apr 2, 2019 @ 7:40pm
Morale,discipline and combat ability
Which one is most efficient if you want to enhance army's fighting capacity?
Originally posted by Stormy Waters:
Morale will keep your guys fighting longer to their number count. This works good at the start, but late game can actually seriously hurt you.
This is why discipline is best overall stat. It reduces their damage taken and increases their damage.
Combat ability is not offered as much. Ming has a trigger for it with their mechanics. Cant really say that i ever used it over the CCR/Tax/Trade bonuses. But i take Quality ideas which contains it.
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_warfare
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bri Apr 2, 2019 @ 9:14pm 
Early game morale, late game discipline...
The author of this thread has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
Stormy Waters Apr 3, 2019 @ 5:50am 
Morale will keep your guys fighting longer to their number count. This works good at the start, but late game can actually seriously hurt you.
This is why discipline is best overall stat. It reduces their damage taken and increases their damage.
Combat ability is not offered as much. Ming has a trigger for it with their mechanics. Cant really say that i ever used it over the CCR/Tax/Trade bonuses. But i take Quality ideas which contains it.
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_warfare
Last edited by Stormy Waters; Apr 3, 2019 @ 5:51am
楚哲 Apr 3, 2019 @ 6:13am 


Originally posted by bri:
Early game morale, late game discipline...
Really helpful.Thx:muxin:
Tulduil Iphukiir Apr 3, 2019 @ 9:19am 
Check out this and also parts 2 and 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O63oZQpKt_g
tonypa Apr 3, 2019 @ 10:13am 
The effect of discipline and combat ability is same. The difference kicks in from the fact that Discipline is affecting all types of the units, and is also increasing Defense.

Once the cavalry loses importance Cavalry Combat Ability also becomes useless. Unless you are building specially Cavalry-heavy nation (Hordes, Poland), in such case with 50% Cavalry CA you will be cutting down enemy units really fast.

If you can throw in enough Artillery to fill back row Artillery Combat Ability gives nice boost to the damage. but in most battles you could be fighting with only half the Artillery units, or even less if saving money.

So, the best modifier in most cases is Infantry Combat Ability, as Infantry will be doing most of the fighting. Both Sweden and Prussia are almost impossible to kill thanks to their 20% Infantry CA (they do get Discipline bonus too from national ideas).
Lantantan Apr 3, 2019 @ 12:56pm 
Morale for early game wars won in a few battles. Discipline for efficiently grinding down 500k Ottomans.
Peel Apr 3, 2019 @ 1:38pm 
It depends on your army composition (which depends to an extent on the ideas your nation has as well as income, force limit, tech, and more).

Generally I aim for a 1:1 Infantry to Artillery ratio, with a couple of Cavalry. Though keep in mind this setup falls off sharply if outnumbered or outreinforced (same as others, it is just more likely due to the cost and compressed combat lineup - fill with infantry if you think this is a problem).

The following is purely for offense, but in general the defensive modifiers are slightly better. Morale is more difficult to gauge, but I seem to remember it being very similar in battle success to the equivalent discipline and CA modifiers, except that you lose more men...

If you use this 1:1 standard unit, I made a spreadsheet with the effects of each modifier for each tech level. Assigning an arbitrary score to each: +10% Fire is a consistent 6.5; +10% Shock reduces from 5 to 3; +10% Inf CA reduces from 7 to 4; +10% Art CA increases from 4 to 5; +5% Discipline is always 5 (comparison baseline); +1 Artillery Fire Modifier reduces from 47 to 5 (OP!).

I think I multiplied frontline (Infantry) strength by 0.8 to get to these values, based on them taking damage.

In summary, get artillery fire if you can, otherwise everything is actually pretty balanced. Ignore shock if you're expecting infantry and artillery fights.

You can request more stats, and I'll reply sometime tomorrow...
Lantantan Apr 3, 2019 @ 1:51pm 
Before mil tech 16, it's all about that shock. After mil tech 20, it's all about that fire. Before mil tech 16, only run full infantry armies with a couple for-siege-only cannons.
楚哲 Apr 3, 2019 @ 10:50pm 
Thanks you all!:nekoheart:Now I think I should figure It out.You are the best player community I have ever seen!
楚哲 Apr 3, 2019 @ 11:04pm 
Originally posted by Peel:
It depends on your army composition (which depends to an extent on the ideas your nation has as well as income, force limit, tech, and more).

Generally I aim for a 1:1 Infantry to Artillery ratio, with a couple of Cavalry. Though keep in mind this setup falls off sharply if outnumbered or outreinforced (same as others, it is just more likely due to the cost and compressed combat lineup - fill with infantry if you think this is a problem).

The following is purely for offense, but in general the defensive modifiers are slightly better. Morale is more difficult to gauge, but I seem to remember it being very similar in battle success to the equivalent discipline and CA modifiers, except that you lose more men...

If you use this 1:1 standard unit, I made a spreadsheet with the effects of each modifier for each tech level. Assigning an arbitrary score to each: +10% Fire is a consistent 6.5; +10% Shock reduces from 5 to 3; +10% Inf CA reduces from 7 to 4; +10% Art CA increases from 4 to 5; +5% Discipline is always 5 (comparison baseline); +1 Artillery Fire Modifier reduces from 47 to 5 (OP!).

I think I multiplied frontline (Infantry) strength by 0.8 to get to these values, based on them taking damage.

In summary, get artillery fire if you can, otherwise everything is actually pretty balanced. Ignore shock if you're expecting infantry and artillery fights.

You can request more stats, and I'll reply sometime tomorrow...
sorry,I'm not English speaker,so I have some trouble to understand your analysis.What is the specific meaning of the numbers in your spreadsheet?Such as 6.5,7 to 4,47 to 5.I don't konw what these numbers refer to....
Peel Apr 3, 2019 @ 11:59pm 
Originally posted by 楚哲:
What is the specific meaning of the numbers in your spreadsheet?Such as 6.5,7 to 4,47 to 5.I don't konw what these numbers refer to....
Sorry for the confusion.

The simple answer is that these are the improvement in %.

This only applies to the damage dealt, but this is actually a good measure of combat performance. Let's take morale as an example: +10% morale gives +10% morale damage dealt. and +10% to the amount received before your unit breaks. However, +10% CA (Combat Ability) gives +10% casualties, which translates to +10% morale damage dealt, but also reduces the enemy's strength faster - so you are taking less damage (and morale damage) in return.

As you can see, modelling the entire combat for all modifiers is too complex, so I restricted myself to an average (front line at 80% strength). Basically my values apply if you are not fighting to the death.
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Date Posted: Apr 2, 2019 @ 7:40pm
Posts: 11