Thinking about buying EU4

[The Uruk Scribe]

I am a fan of Paradox games. The only really bad thing I can say about their games are that there is so much dlc! And that the games more or less require said dlc.

My questions are:
- Is the base game worth 40 euros? Or should I wait for a sale?
- What dlc's would you say is NEEDED to play? Which you DLC's would you never play without, in other words.

[The Uruk Scribe]

P.s. the Paradox games I currently own are CK2 and Stellaris. And I love both, tho CK2 are a little more fun if you ask me.

[Shai-Hulud]

Always recommend waiting for a sale.

I came to this game after ck2 and I like this game much more.

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

How do you define "worth 40 €"? For me it is a great game and I poured 300 hours in it before I bought any DLC (more playtime than most of my other Steam games).
By now I own every DLC (even most cosmetical ones) and passed the 3000 hours mark (more than all my other Steam games added together) two weeks ago. Even if I had bought every bit all full price (which I didn't) I consider it a great bargain, in terms of money per playtime (if have 50€ games which I played for only 50 hours).

However, be prepared that EU4 might not suit you. You may hate it after trying it. In that case 40€ (or more, if you directly bought DLCs) may be too much for you.
If you are already a fan of other Pdx games (which?) you know this type of games.
EU4 is a game about Diplomacy, with war being a big part of it (but far from the only part).
Unlike CK you play a nation, not a character. (I haven't played HoI or Vic to compare to those)

On the current patch NO(!) DLC is "needed" (some DLC features were added to the base game some patches ago). The game is playable without any.
Some nations/mechanics may feel a bit hollow but as a beginner you probably won't notice that (unless you watch tutorial videos/read guides which use DLCs).
I also made the observation that "has all DLCs" is the default mode for most people on the forum if you don't say which DLCs you have.

Some DLCs make the game easier for some nations and at the same time harder for others (e.g. with Conquest of Paradise subjects can ask other nations to support their independence: That makes a game as Sweden easier (because you can ask for support) and a game as Denmark harder (because Sweden can ask for support).
Some DLCs are completely worthless if you never touch the mechanics it adds/enhances (the most extreme case probably Third Rome if you never want to play in/near Russia).

Some DLCs add helpful features (army templates, automatic exploration, diplomatic macro builder) but no single one of those features justifies buying the DLC only for it.

However, Art of War has many of those small helpful features and its other content is also good.
On the other hand, Rigths of Man adds stuff to monarchies (which is the most widespread government type).
El Dorado is a special case: It allows to create Custom Nations which can be fun or completely unnecessary, depending on your preferences (apart from that it only helps colonizers and some American nations).

If you really want to buy a DLC right from the start consider Rights of Man (if you plan to play a non-European monarchy) or Art of War (for all European nations and non-European non Monarchies).
However, if you have a special nation in mind some other DLCs may be more useful: Hordes (not recommended for beginners!) profit from Cossacks, British nations from Rule Britannia, ...

If you have a special nation in mind feel free to ask here which DLCs we recommend for that nation.

[Sugar]

Realistically you don't need all the DLC to play the game. Not when you first get it, at least. The absolute must haves are Rights of Man, Art of War and Common sense. Those are absolutely essential for an enjoyable experience. Everything else is there to add flavour.
That being said, I wouldn't play the game outside of Europe even with the essential DLC, since it really doesn't offer much in the terms of a new experience, because there are no events or unique mechanics without said flavour DLC.
Paradox are offering a 5 euro a month subscription for all the EU4 DLC, however this doesn't really pay off in the long run, since you won't be playing EU4 every free moment you have. That's my take on it at least.

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Origineel geplaatst door Sugar:

[...]The absolute must haves are Rights of Man, Art of War and Common sense. Those are absolutely essential for an enjoyable experience. [...]

Common Sense is still a good DLC for some nations (Theocracies, Protestant, Buddhist, in/around HRE) and has useful stuff for everyone (e.g. subject interactions).
However, with manual development added to the base game it is far from the "absolute must have" it was considered to be.

[Sugar]

Origineel geplaatst door Tulduil Iphukiir:

Common Sense is still a good DLC for some nations (Theocracies, Protestant, Buddhist, in/around HRE) and has useful stuff for everyone (e.g. subject interactions).
However, with manual development added to the base game it is far from the "absolute must have" it was considered to be.

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Common_Sense
Read this and tell me how you'd play the game without all these feature. Thanks.
Dev pushing is idiotic, but without any of the other things it gives the game is even more cursed.

[brian_va]

Buy the base game on sale, see if you even like it. After a bit you'll get a feel for where 5he game is lacking, and pick those dlcs up on sale. They are also looking at a subscription service, might be a good way to test out the full game without going all in, assuming the price is reasonable and you can sign up for just one month, not real sure if you can or if it's even available yet but it could be an option.

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Origineel geplaatst door Sugar:

Origineel geplaatst door Tulduil Iphukiir:

Common Sense is still a good DLC for some nations (Theocracies, Protestant, Buddhist, in/around HRE) and has useful stuff for everyone (e.g. subject interactions).
However, with manual development added to the base game it is far from the "absolute must have" it was considered to be.

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Common_Sense
Read this and tell me how you'd play the game without all these feature. Thanks.
Dev pushing is idiotic, but without any of the other things it gives the game is even more cursed.

I read that article before writing my above answer to you.
I already said it is a good DLC or "Theocracies, Protestant, Buddhist, in/around HRE" (includes Free Cities and revoking Electorates).

For (more or less) every nation it adds:
- Parliaments: Without Dharma restricted to only a few nations/government types. In my opinion they are nice (especially when available to (nearly) everyone with Dharma but far from a "must have" and confusing for a beginner
- Government ranks manually upgradable: Again, nothing special, just some higher numbers. The additional Diplomat can be useful. Maybe a bit more interesting since endgame tags were introduced (before EGTs you could e.g. form Russia for Empire rank and then Prussia for ideas)
- Return Core: Sure, can be used to revive a dead nation to be vassalized (and then use Return Core CB for it) or to increase the number of HRE princes/Tributaries/Daimyos. However, I don't see where this ability can change a game for a beginner
- Subject Interactions: In my opinion the best in this list
- Dismiss Advisors: Can be great to get the advisor you want but keep in mind that you get some guaranteed advisors from the Estates (unless you have Factions) and there are ways to increase your advisor pool. Remember that we are talking about DLCs for a new player, not DLCs to minmax the best. +Morale/+Discipline can be great but if not having one of those loses you a war you made a mistake elsewhere.
-National Focus: Nice to have if you have an imbalanced ruler or want to tech up faster/fill an idea group faster/core more provinces/take many unjustified demands/..., puts Res Publica low on the DLC priority. It can help (if you get to mil tech 4 first etc), but again, is not mandatory in my opinion. I usually tend to forget about it after the early game (though I am not a minmaxer).


Buying CS just for Subject Interactions is not worth it in my opinion.
If you play a nation that uses subjects not just to fabricate/core/... and another DLC adds to that nation I would always recommend that other DLC first (e.g. Japan colonizing America profits more from Mandate of Heaven and maybe El Dorado than from CS).

For me, Common Sense nowadays is a "region focus" DLC with focus on Protestantism, Buddhism, HRE and Theocracies (and a bit extra stuff), just like e.g. Cradle of Civilization has its focus on Islam (and a bit extra stuff) or Mandate of Heaven has its focus on Confucianism, Shintoism, East Asia (and bit bit extra stuff).

CS's "extra stuff" is all nice-to-have but and I regularily use at least some of it but I still say that the "extra stuff" is no "absolute must have" right from the start for a beginner.
(Of course if he decides to start with e.g. Brandenburg/Sweden/... I totally recommend CS just like I recommend Dharma and Wealth of Nations for Vijayanagar)

[Prussian]

When I've been booting up the game recently theres a tab where you can get the DLC for $4.99 a month. You might want to look into that to see if you can atleast try it out before buying it all.

[VaderDFXB]

Origineel geplaatst door Prussian:

When I've been booting up the game recently theres a tab where you can get the DLC for $4.99 a month. You might want to look into that to see if you can atleast try it out before buying it all.

Please don't support a subscription system for a single-player game, it's beyond insane.

Sadly OP you missed out on a fantastic deal on Humble Bundle not too long ago where you could get EUIV and all the main DLC, except for Conquest of Paradise which sucks, for less than 20USD. Otherwise the base game of EUIV is...lacking. Well it is for me since I have all the DLC which makes trying to play the base game without DLC quite painful. Typical of Paradox games sadly.

[EQCR]

Great game (I have over 5000 hours in it). I always wait for sales. All of the DLC are good but the older ones are more important than the newer ones.

[Eddie Latium]

Absolutely worth it, especially if you are already a Paradox player.

Take a look at this video, it goes through it, however the Empire Founder Pack is certainly a good start:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyomWfmtuk8

Definitely go a for a sale, as they are pretty frequent and you can grab a bunch of DLCs for the price of the base game.

If you are really in a hurry look around, this site here for example has the base game at -87% right now:
https://www.cdkeys.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=europa%20universalis

[SamHill]

Greenmangaming has base game at 77% off at the moment.

[僕の名前 (仮)]

yes it's worth but wait for sale ofc.

Or month sub if you have it might be cheaper, depends how much time you play.

[Kago™².]

man wait for a sale, you can get it for 7.5€.
Paying full price would be stupid after all these years