New to End Game Tags

[psnowy]

So, I was playing as the Ottomans with the intention of forming Croatia after converting to Orthodoxy. I am 100% Orthodox, primary culture Croatian at 51%, and I even moved my capital into originally Croatian land to see if it would help. And no button. I literally can't form Croatia and there is no reason why I can't.
Croatia's requirements are: https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Croatia
I am Ottomans, it doesn't say they can't. I have the culture and own all the cores.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/947335422004128234/2E5DD6F6DD47FB84FCD8F726EB9FE1B953D2C08E/

I don't get it. If I had created Croatia as a vassal and later integrated them, would that have gone against the "has not yet enacted this decision" requirement?

[Stayin Alive]

otto end tag?

[tonypa]

1.26 added list of tags that can not form any other country:
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Formable_countries#End-game_tags
And yes, Ottos can not be used to switch to other countries anymore

[psnowy]

Be nice if that were more vocalised somewhere, like on the formable nations noting that none of the "end game tag" nations can form them with a hyperlink to the source... oh well.

[AlwaysRM]

Originally posted by tonypa:

1.26 added list of tags that can not form any other country:
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Formable_countries#End-game_tags
And yes, Ottos can not be used to switch to other countries anymore

Except for the True end tags (Roman Empire and the HRE)

[Radene]

I understand the change, really. It closes plenty of exploits. On the other hand, tag-switching games were fun.

[luckymarine]

Exactly what percentage of the player base is ever going to be skilled enough to take advantage of multiple tag switching?
Closing off a part of the game that opens up a whole new fun aspect for those into the thousands of hours was a mistake.

[Crim]

Originally posted by luckymarine:

Exactly what percentage of the player base is ever going to be skilled enough to take advantage of multiple tag switching?
Closing off a part of the game that opens up a whole new fun aspect for those into the thousands of hours was a mistake.

The same percentage of the player base is actually affected by the 1% Corruption for Excess Territories

[Fellini_Fiend]

RIP Ottomans>Georgia>Byzantium :(

Thankfully I already do my One Faith campaign where I started as Ottomans, converted to Catholicism, formed Spain for their ideas, became emperor and then integrated all of the HRE vassals who owned all of the non-trade company lands throughout Asia and Africa thus having almost all of the world officially integrated into my final form the Turkish-Spanish Holy Roman Emperor.

Hell Mughals aren’t even a go to formable anymore with the changes to their new unique government that assimilates all cultures which means promoting cultures manually and culture shifting is no longer available to them. The fact you can’t do any cultural interactions anymore makes them an end game tag by default even if they weren’t written to be an end game tag, it’s literally impossible to to get out of being Hindvi culture unless you force yourself to become an OPM in a random culture and are forced to go bankrupt.

[captain403]

Originally posted by luckymarine:

Exactly what percentage of the player base is ever going to be skilled enough to take advantage of multiple tag switching?
Closing off a part of the game that opens up a whole new fun aspect for those into the thousands of hours was a mistake.

Badwrongfun must be squelched.

[Fellini_Fiend]

Oh btw I don’t believe France is an end game tag for whatever reason. Found that out during a Florryworry stream where he was testing out tags that can be formed. He also tested out some funky stuff with the Mughals by forming them, doing the mission trees to get Deccan released as a vassal, he then used the console to switch to Deccan and integrate the Mughals and despite him believing Deccan is supposed to be an end game tag he could form the Mughals with them and then go through the mission tree again to release Deccan. The chat was having a ball with this fact and called it Deccanception.

I haven’t actually researched to see if Deccan is actually an end game tag but what he thought might be happening is that if you manually form Deccan yourself it is an end game tag but if it just appears through an event and you play as them it’s not an end game tag.

Doing the Deccan switch is what made him curious to find out what else is or isn’t an end game tag which is how he found out France isn’t one.

[tonypa]

France or Deccan are not even listed as end-game tags in the wiki.

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

I suppose Deccan is not an end game tag because Hindustan exists as end game tag. (Though that is just a guess with nothing to back it up).


France not an end game tag is a bit strange in my opinion.
In history France did not "form" any other country like Eng->GB, Bra->(...)->Ger, Cas->Spain, someone (in most games probably not Savoy)-> Italy.

It is reasonable to allow 1444 nations to form countries if they did in history but what about countries that stayed the same for centuries? Should they be allowed to form another nation?
Of the (European) 1444 big nations which never formed another nation only one is an end game tag (Ottomans) while France and Austria (I would not call the administrative change from Ausria ruling over Hungary to Austria-Hungary an "Formation" in EU4 terms, regardless that a formable A-H does not exist) aren't.

I understand why Ottomans is end game tag but from a logical standpoint (and not so much game mechanicswise) either France and Austria should also be EGTs or neither of the three.

[glock30owner]

Originally posted by captain403:

Originally posted by luckymarine:

Exactly what percentage of the player base is ever going to be skilled enough to take advantage of multiple tag switching?
Closing off a part of the game that opens up a whole new fun aspect for those into the thousands of hours was a mistake.

Badwrongfun must be squelched.

This seems to be a common theme with Paradox's games in the last year.

[Fellini_Fiend]

Originally posted by tonypa:

France or Deccan are not even listed as end-game tags in the wiki.

Yeah I think he only assumed they were an end game tag. He doesn't totally follow all of the dev diaries so he likely only glanced at the list once and forgot.

That said Ottomans could still form one other tag: Holy Roman Empire as long as they're able to become Christian.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by luckymarine:

Exactly what percentage of the player base is ever going to be skilled enough to take advantage of multiple tag switching?
Closing off a part of the game that opens up a whole new fun aspect for those into the thousands of hours was a mistake.

It's not just "skill". Some of us won't do that because we prefer to roleplay our nations and tag switching willy nilly goes against that.