Ironman achievements no fun?

[Manski]

Why are so many achievements in EU4 just about tryharding and blobbing as much as you can in order to get an achievement? Like I just stopped my Mare Nostrum run in 1500 because it got so boring after becoming a powerhouse. What is the point?

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

In my opinion this isn't (completely) a problem of the achievements but of the game itself:

Achievements are completely optional (Ironman or not), nobody is forced to go after them.

The big thing is: EU4 has no "win conditions": Mechanicswise there is no difference between barely reaching 1821 as OPM or as True One Tag WC. You get nothing from it (only a good feeling), you cannot "beat" EU4 like you can "beat" e.g. a Singleplayer story game (or even a MP shooter with a short SP campaign) or a classic RTS where you win by defeating all opponents.

You have to set your own objectives and can use the achievements as ideas/recommendations.

Yes, you are right, many (but by far not most) achievements encourage/require a WC or half a WC but there are many other interesting achievements.
You are also right that the game might become "boring" at one point, the reason many players have never done a WC, even if it is easy gameplaywise, it just becomes tedious.

Fact is you can do what you want, there is no "right" nor "wrong" way to play and if you find going for achievements boring try another play style, either in the base game or with mods.

[Silver Felyne]

Well, PDX is trying to move away from "Pseudo-World-Conquest" type achievements anyway. Many of these achievements require sweat because there's a certain degree of prestige about getting them (and it's why there are people that get VERY angry if you savescum, even though that can only undo bad moves, not bad strategy).

Anyway, I feel you. It gets to the point where you've won, but the game doesn't know it yet. But at 1500? You're either really good, the Ottomans, or you've sorely underestimated the power of Alliance Webs and Coalitions.

[Manski]

Originally posted by Silver Felyne:

Well, PDX is trying to move away from "Pseudo-World-Conquest" type achievements anyway. Many of these achievements require sweat because there's a certain degree of prestige about getting them (and it's why there are people that get VERY angry if you savescum, even though that can only undo bad moves, not bad strategy).

Anyway, I feel you. It gets to the point where you've won, but the game doesn't know it yet. But at 1500? You're either really good, the Ottomans, or you've sorely underestimated the power of Alliance Webs and Coalitions.

Well being a blobbing France + Ottoman ally is pretty much winning the game I guess :D

[Manski]

Originally posted by Tulduil Iphukiir:

In my opinion this isn't (completely) a problem of the achievements but of the game itself:

Achievements are completely optional (Ironman or not), nobody is forced to go after them.

The big thing is: EU4 has no "win conditions": Mechanicswise there is no difference between barely reaching 1821 as OPM or as True One Tag WC. You get nothing from it (only a good feeling), you cannot "beat" EU4 like you can "beat" e.g. a Singleplayer story game (or even a MP shooter with a short SP campaign) or a classic RTS where you win by defeating all opponents.

You have to set your own objectives and can use the achievements as ideas/recommendations.

Yes, you are right, many (but by far not most) achievements encourage/require a WC or half a WC but there are many other interesting achievements.
You are also right that the game might become "boring" at one point, the reason many players have never done a WC, even if it is easy gameplaywise, it just becomes tedious.

Fact is you can do what you want, there is no "right" nor "wrong" way to play and if you find going for achievements boring try another play style, either in the base game or with mods.

I think Paradox should add more tall-player options. I just love playing tall with nations and becoming a power while trying to maintain the status quo in Europe for example.

[Silver Felyne]

Originally posted by Manski:

I think Paradox should add more tall-player options. I just love playing tall with nations and becoming a power while trying to maintain the status quo in Europe for example.

They need to encourage Tall Play by removing the diplo-cost for forcing a nation to release another nation, allow the destruction of forts/others in a trade deal, perhaps Victoria-style sphering but I dunno, and reduce the aggression of the AI so you don't NEED to expand to survive.

[Donathan Cheadledge]

I'm not really sure what other achievements they could really add. Adding achievements like "gain x income from trade/tax/production" would likely require blobbing, or 'earn x monarch points a month" would need power projection -> wars

It's a game that largely revolves around blobbing a bit, so the achievements will reflect that.

[bri]

There are plenty of achievements that don't require anything close to wc level blobbing available although I do agree that there are too many of the wc type. Still, you can easily hit 60% or more without doing any wc type...

[tonypa]

This is the list of achievements Dharma/Mughals update will add:

-Switch government type through government reforms.
-Start as Tribal nation in India and become a Steppe Horde
-Own 8 level 3 CoTs
-As the Mughals assimilate Mongolian culture
-Complete the Mewar Mission Tree
-As Ghorka form Nepal and defeat Prussia with at least 100 000 prussian casualties in a war
-As Kandy be production leader of Cotton.
-Become Christian as Sindh
-As Nevers, own the entire France region as core provinces
-Have more than 50% Privateering power in Gujarat Node
-Change Religion to Sikh as Punjab
-As Denmark establish Trade company and have at least 10% Tea market share
-Starting as a Timurid subject, form the Mughals and conquer india by 1550
-Control all Grasslands in Asia as Kale before the Age of Absolutism.
-Charter Company from an Indian nation
-Start as Mewar and field an army of 20 Rajput regiments
-Starting as Mysore, conquer the Deccan and Coromandel Regions
-Border at least 10 nations and scornfully insult all of them
-Starting as Delhi, reconquer their empire at their height
-As Austria have a fully built up Indian Company in West Bengal Area

I don't think any of these require huge world covering blob (maybe the Nepal/Prussia ach does).

For me the problem with many achievements is that they are not natural. You do not earn most of them just by accident while playing normally, you need to be set up specific game and follow very specific path, and play unnaturally.

[Shai-Hulud]

So you must have big blue blob right? If you're such a powerhouse by 1500?

[bri]

Originally posted by tonypa:

This is the list of achievements Dharma/Mughals update will add:

-Switch government type through government reforms.
-Start as Tribal nation in India and become a Steppe Horde
-Own 8 level 3 CoTs
-As the Mughals assimilate Mongolian culture
-Complete the Mewar Mission Tree
-As Ghorka form Nepal and defeat Prussia with at least 100 000 prussian casualties in a war
-As Kandy be production leader of Cotton.
-Become Christian as Sindh
-As Nevers, own the entire France region as core provinces
-Have more than 50% Privateering power in Gujarat Node
-Change Religion to Sikh as Punjab
-As Denmark establish Trade company and have at least 10% Tea market share
-Starting as a Timurid subject, form the Mughals and conquer india by 1550
-Control all Grasslands in Asia as Kale before the Age of Absolutism.
-Charter Company from an Indian nation
-Start as Mewar and field an army of 20 Rajput regiments
-Starting as Mysore, conquer the Deccan and Coromandel Regions
-Border at least 10 nations and scornfully insult all of them
-Starting as Delhi, reconquer their empire at their height
-As Austria have a fully built up Indian Company in West Bengal Area

I don't think any of these require huge world covering blob (maybe the Nepal/Prussia ach does).

For me the problem with many achievements is that they are not natural. You do not earn most of them just by accident while playing normally, you need to be set up specific game and follow very specific path, and play unnaturally.

My count has 4 "aggressive and/or massive blobbing" plus a question mark on the Mewar mission tree (Kale unless you just cherry-pick, Mughal conquest, Mughal assimilation, Ghorka-not to mention the part where you'll probably need to build the ai Prussia to beat up). They aren't ridiculous like Norwegian wood and such but there's definitely blobbing required. The rest shouldn't be too bad (assuming you can get Kandy done before a lot of new world cotton appears).

[mystafyi]

Originally posted by Silver Felyne:

(and it's why there are people that get VERY angry if you savescum, even though that can only undo bad moves, not bad strategy).

Since many events have a daily tick scumming can help avoid bad events and if you scum enough promote good events

[hengepupper]

for me achievements can be a goal to do when im bored

[Silver Felyne]

Originally posted by mystafyi:

Since many events have a daily tick scumming can help avoid bad events and if you scum enough promote good events

If you have the patience to savescum enough so every single event goes your way, you deserve it.
Either you're saving after literally every move, which sounds like torture, or every failure will require you to repeat the same move 30 times.

But with such interesting events such as Unavoidable_Stab_Hit1 and Unavoidable_Stab_Hit2 I see no reason why anyone would want to avoid them. :/

[Admod, the Equivocal]

Originally posted by tonypa:

For me the problem with many achievements is that they are not natural. You do not earn most of them just by accident while playing normally, you need to be set up specific game and follow very specific path, and play unnaturally.

Damn. You want achievements that are like: Start the game. WOW here's an achievement. Play till the age of reformation. WOW. Here's an achievement. Get to the end of the game. WOW here's an achievement. Royal marry someone. WOW here's an achievement.

You see...the thing about achievements...they're achievements. You shouldn't just stumble on most of them naturally. You're the kind of person that if there is an achievement in a game for collecting 300/300 of something you'd be like...its not natural. I have to go off of the path to get them.

[AlwaysRM]

Originally posted by tonypa:

This is the list of achievements Dharma/Mughals update will add:

-As Ghorka form Nepal and defeat Prussia with at least 100 000 prussian casualties in a war

Don't forget.
Prussia needs to form.........