Eu4 is effectively dead...

[DankDansk]

As some people may know, with the imminent introduction of Imperator to Paradox's Library of games, The Jomoni Engine addition has been added to the fray to help Their newer games further down the road. Personally, I find it incredible, but this does not come without it's disappointments and concerns.

The Clausewitz engine; the brain for many of Paradox's games, has literally become obsolete when running games like Europa Universalis 4 and Hearts of Iron 4. It has been reduced to a slow and sickly crawl with all the graphics improvements and new content added, and the game barely runs at all for many people. This is an extreme tragedy, because many people will tell you that this game was probably the best game that Paradox Interactive has ever made, and will possibly stay as the best game for years to come. Now, this masterpiece of a game has almost been rendered unplayable, and the worst part; Paradox does not seem to care.

Before I continue on into why Paradox does not care about Eu4 anymore, I need to explain a few things that lead up to Eu4's laggy demise. The most prominent is the fact that the Clausewitz engine is both old and poorly designed. The Clausewitz engine can only use one of your computer's multiple core processors, causing even some of the beefiest of computers to crash and hit extreme lag spikes. The engine was also designed to be used for Eu3 and Hoi3; Not more modern and demanding games.

Another major problem is the DLC policy. No, the prices are not the issue. It actually doesn't even have to do anything with the DLC itself, but rather the free updates. Free updates add tons of new features - which is awesome! But with these features comes even more data that the Poorly devised game engine has to process. This eventually turns into an Arabic trade camel. The camel may help carry stuff, but can only carry so much. With amount of things that Paradox has stacked on this poor camel's back, It has long been broken.

And why will this be bad for Imperator: Rome?

Because, besides Jomoni, Paradox has not introduced anything to Imperator: Rome that will help curve the intense problems that a much more Intense and Complex game. With all apparent evidence, this points to Imperator: Rome functioning even worse than Hoi4 had at launch.

And the main reason why nothing else has been implemented is that Paradox does not seem to care about highly important things like this. The only thing that really matters to them is continuing the neverending cycle of Publish -> Profit, and while, yes, free updates are added, they are added because it helps ease the tension of adding DLC, and gives them a good defence mechanism against critics. Without either improving the clausewitz engine or improving the games performance somehow, the game will eventually fall into the same, laggy, crashing cesspool that both Eu4 and Hoi4 have been under for years. This proves that Paradox simply does not care about the long-term consequences of what happens to their games.

And even though rebuilding the Clausewitz engine for Eu4 and Hoi4 is unrealistic, at least somehow easing the load that the camel has to carry will surely help.

Because, remember, Arabian merchants did not have steroids.

[tonypa]

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

Clausewitz *IS* using multiple threads.

It takes literally just a second to run the task manager and see that EU4 uses more then 1 core, even in Windows. Does not matter if Linux is superior and will rule everything, the OP is simply wrong.

As about Linux vs Windows, there is no way to compare the two. Even when people say Windows they could be talking about W8 (or sometimes even W7), and even when they have W10 they could be missing updates, have different settings or just other programs installed. Basically, you can have one Win PC run same exact program really well, and next one crash and lag constantly.

As you probably know there is no such thing as "Linux" to even start to compare it with Windows. Possible ways to customize it are simply endless. If you throw piles of garbage on it you can easily make it also run slowly and crash.

[Addex78]

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

Edit to add: You know the PS4 runs BSD right (ie a *nix) you know the switch runs on BSD right? (ie a *nix) You know SteamOS itself is Linux right (another *nix) the only reason doze is so popular for games is because back in the day it was the only choice, so game developers pretty much had to develop for it even though it was in general terms utter garbage for running games, as seen by everyone complaining about "mah one thread" here and Stellaris and CK2 forums, and as seen by every console running a *nix varient apart from xbox.

Please stop calling things Linux or BSD that are not Linux or BSD. It's like calling Lumberyard, CryEngine.

PS4 runs an offshoot of BSD as BSD was discontinued years and years ago, now people develop their own forms of BSD only using it as a base.

Same thing with calling steam Linux, it isn't, it uses the same architecture but is heavily modified.

You keep saying *nix as if it is something important, it really isn't, most Operating Systems use UNIX, he'll, a crap done of programs use UNIX, there are UNIX time servers. It's not special, it's just what was used to develop original Operating systems so people have developed it more.

[Sneaky_Koala]

Originally posted by Addex78:

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

Edit to add: You know the PS4 runs BSD right (ie a *nix) you know the switch runs on BSD right? (ie a *nix) You know SteamOS itself is Linux right (another *nix) the only reason doze is so popular for games is because back in the day it was the only choice, so game developers pretty much had to develop for it even though it was in general terms utter garbage for running games, as seen by everyone complaining about "mah one thread" here and Stellaris and CK2 forums, and as seen by every console running a *nix varient apart from xbox.

Please stop calling things Linux or BSD that are not Linux or BSD. It's like calling Lumberyard, CryEngine.

PS4 runs an offshoot of BSD as BSD was discontinued years and years ago, now people develop their own forms of BSD only using it as a base.

Same thing with calling steam Linux, it isn't, it uses the same architecture but is heavily modified.

You keep saying *nix as if it is something important, it really isn't, most Operating Systems use UNIX, he'll, a crap done of programs use UNIX, there are UNIX time servers. It's not special, it's just what was used to develop original Operating systems so people have developed it more.

Wrong. BSD is still very much up and running. But keep spouting something you've heard from someone who mentioned it somewhere.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... "develop original operating systems" what the hell are you smoking..

[Sneaky_Koala]

Originally posted by tonypa:

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

Clausewitz *IS* using multiple threads.

It takes literally just a second to run the task manager and see that EU4 uses more then 1 core, even in Windows. Does not matter if Linux is superior and will rule everything, the OP is simply wrong.

As about Linux vs Windows, there is no way to compare the two. Even when people say Windows they could be talking about W8 (or sometimes even W7), and even when they have W10 they could be missing updates, have different settings or just other programs installed. Basically, you can have one Win PC run same exact program really well, and next one crash and lag constantly.

As you probably know there is no such thing as "Linux" to even start to compare it with Windows. Possible ways to customize it are simply endless. If you throw piles of garbage on it you can easily make it also run slowly and crash.

Linux is the Kernel. Windows also has it's own Kernel - they work in totally different ways. Once again.. All supercomputers use the Linux Kernal (not windows) Microsoft uses LINUX kernel (not it's own product) for running all the Skype servers, for azure, for it's own backend. Even MS doesn't use windows for anything needing a lot of cores. No one does.

All mission critical software is using Linux (ok - to be specific, the Linux Kernal) - not windows.

Any system on the planet that need reliability, performance and uptime uses Linux or BSD. The facts are out there in black and white. No one uses windows exept for end users, 99% of whom only use it because "it came with the computer"... Do me a favour - run ANY paradox game on a linux distro and tell me it's not faster. It is... been there. Done that.

As to the task manager thing - some years back I pointed out to someone they hadn't even looked at it and were jumping on the band wagon about the whole one core thing. I got no less than three people with screenshots showing Stellaris (in that particular case) taking up 100% of CPU on one core and the others doing bugger all.

[Addex78]

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

Originally posted by Addex78:

Please stop calling things Linux or BSD that are not Linux or BSD. It's like calling Lumberyard, CryEngine.

PS4 runs an offshoot of BSD as BSD was discontinued years and years ago, now people develop their own forms of BSD only using it as a base.

Same thing with calling steam Linux, it isn't, it uses the same architecture but is heavily modified.

You keep saying *nix as if it is something important, it really isn't, most Operating Systems use UNIX, he'll, a crap done of programs use UNIX, there are UNIX time servers. It's not special, it's just what was used to develop original Operating systems so people have developed it more.

Wrong. BSD is still very much up and running. But keep spouting something you've heard from someone who mentioned it somewhere.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... "develop original operating systems" what the hell are you smoking..

BSD is indeed discontinued. PS4's operating system is derived from FreeBSD, which is derived from BSD.

BSD itself, hasn't been a thing since the early 90's.

In terms of me having "absolutely no idea what I am talking about" unfortunatly I do. UNIX was developed by AT&T hence its original name AT&T UNIX. Most operating systems now use UNIX due to the original BSD software being Open Source, later becoming NetBSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD (there are a few others as well I think). Thinks like SunOS and OrbisOS are derived from BSD.

I also didn't hear this from someone else. There are plenty of books out there on the history of computer language and development over the years.

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

All supercomputers use the Linux Kernal (not windows)

Wrong. Most use Linux, some use inhouse operating systems. IBM doesn't use Linux.

I beg of you, make sure your facts are right before trying to tell people whats what. It makes a really really bad impression on you.

[Sneaky_Koala]

Originally posted by Addex78:

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

Wrong. BSD is still very much up and running. But keep spouting something you've heard from someone who mentioned it somewhere.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... "develop original operating systems" what the hell are you smoking..

BSD is indeed discontinued. PS4's operating system is derived from FreeBSD, which is derived from BSD.

BSD itself, hasn't been a thing since the early 90's.

In terms of me having "absolutely no idea what I am talking about" unfortunatly I do. UNIX was developed by AT&T hence its original name AT&T UNIX. Most operating systems now use UNIX due to the original BSD software being Open Source, later becoming NetBSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD (there are a few others as well I think). Thinks like SunOS and OrbisOS are derived from BSD.

I also didn't hear this from someone else. There are plenty of books out there on the history of computer language and development over the years.

Semantics. I'm all to aware about BSD (Berkely Software Distribution) because I used it in part during my comp sci degree back in '94. Anyone in the industry will call any of its spin offs (free/net/open) as "BSD" just as so many using a GNU/Linux distro whether it be Gentoo, Slackware or noob Ubuntu will say "Linux".

[Sneaky_Koala]

All this is deviating from the point. Windows (yes - from '95 to 10) CPU scheduler sucks. You will never get around that. If it was so great M$ would be using their own product for their backends. They don't. And if it was so great we would be seeing the constant "mah clauzwitz only one core" threads come up again and again, and again. Case closed.

[Addex78]

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

All this is deviating from the point. Windows (yes - from '95 to 10) CPU scheduler sucks. You will never get around that. If it was so great M$ would be using their own product for their backends. They don't. Case closed.

My point was for you to give proper information. Don't join a discussion and try to fill it with misinformation. Its also not a case of Windows being good or bad, its a case of what it is designed for. Windows isn't designed to be used for a super computer.

IBM is probably one of the best in computing yet even their operating system isn't built buy them. You really have a lot to learn before you try and give people information.

[Sneaky_Koala]

Originally posted by Addex78:

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

All this is deviating from the point. Windows (yes - from '95 to 10) CPU scheduler sucks. You will never get around that. If it was so great M$ would be using their own product for their backends. They don't. Case closed.

My point was for you to give proper information. Don't join a discussion and try to fill it with misinformation. Its also not a case of Windows being good or bad, its a case of what it is designed for. Windows isn't designed to be used for a super computer.

On the contrary - I am the one providing the information. For every 100 threads about Paradox's engine there is one piping up like me explaining the truth.

I don't care if windows wasn't designed for a supercomputer - the fact is that people are spreading misinformation about the engine not handling multi threads or cores when it is there OS that is having problems. I hope we can at least agree on that.

[Kapika96]

Not sure what OP is on about. EU4 runs perfectly fine on my PC and always has.

It even runs on my 100 quid laptop. It's slow, but it runs and is perfectly playable, besides any game on a 100 quid laptop that's not in any way built to run games is gonna run slow :P

[Addex78]

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

On the contrary - I am the one providing the information. For every 100 threads about Paradox's engine there is one piping up like me explaining the truth.

You have given people bad information, making claims which simply are not true. I am the one who has corrected your information. You obviously training in computers a while ago and have outdated information. Time to sharpen your skills and get up to date before you keep telling people the wrong things.

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

I don't care if windows wasn't designed for a supercomputer - the fact is that people are spreading misinformation about the engine not handling multi threads or cores

If you dont like people spreading misinformation then stop doing it yourself. Always the hypocrites that had bad information.

[Sneaky_Koala]

Originally posted by Addex78:

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

On the contrary - I am the one providing the information. For every 100 threads about Paradox's engine there is one piping up like me explaining the truth.

You have given people bad information, making claims which simply are not true. I am the one who has corrected your information. You obviously training in computers a while ago and have outdated information. Time to sharpen your skills and get up to date before you keep telling people the wrong things.

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

I don't care if windows wasn't designed for a supercomputer - the fact is that people are spreading misinformation about the engine not handling multi threads or cores

If you dont like people spreading misinformation then stop doing it yourself. Always the hypocrites that had bad information.

You haven't corrected anything. The linux kernel (along with BSD) and the associated CPU scheduler handle things infinitley better than windows ever will. Once again, we get all 4 cores on an working equally on paradoxs engine, that is not the case on windows;. Any version, because of the way it operates.

[tonypa]

Originally posted by Kapika96:

Not sure what OP is on about. EU4 runs perfectly fine on my PC and always has.

It even runs on my 100 quid laptop. It's slow, but it runs and is perfectly playable, besides any game on a 100 quid laptop that's not in any way built to run games is gonna run slow :P

You can make any game run slow on any PC by overstacking too many background programs. Heck, you can make whole PC slow and eventually crash with just opening tons of tabs in the Web Browser even without touching EU4.

[Addex78]

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

You haven't corrected anything.

You said all supercomputers use Linux, that is not the case. You claimed BSD is not discontinued, that is not the case.

[Addex78]

Originally posted by tonypa:

Originally posted by Kapika96:

Not sure what OP is on about. EU4 runs perfectly fine on my PC and always has.

It even runs on my 100 quid laptop. It's slow, but it runs and is perfectly playable, besides any game on a 100 quid laptop that's not in any way built to run games is gonna run slow :P

You can make any game run slow on any PC by overstacking too many background programs. Heck, you can make whole PC slow and eventually crash with just opening tons of tabs in the Web Browser even without touching EU4.

Precisely this. My PC runs EU4 and HOI4 fine.