Promoted culture slot lost

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Hi everyone,
I have a problem: I lost a promoted culture slot:

Starting as Odoyev my primary culture is Ryazanian (from East Slavic group). By now I can promote 3 cultures (2 base, 1 from dip tech 8)
I used those for two Tartar cultures (Mishar and Kazani) and Muscovite.
I just formed Russia and therefore become cultural union of East Slavic, which is correctly listed in my Government tab, all other Eat Slavics etc became accepted.

Problem is: Muscovite still counts as promoted* and takes up one slot, even if it should now not take any slot. The demote culture button only appears for Mishar and Kazani und at the bottom it says 3/3 promoted cultures.

Did I just find a bug or is this the correct behaviour?
And if it is a bug: What can I do? Culture shift to Muscovite (Can an Empire change its primary culture???)? Culture shift to another culture group?



* According to the Diplomacy tab "Their primary culture is Ryazanian [...] Russia also accepts Muscovite, Mishar, Kazani [...]

[Matze3]

muscovite is russias primary culture. if my guess is correct you can make ryazanian an non accepted culture or is't that possible as well?

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

According to the Wiki forming Russia does not change your primary culture. The only requirement is that your primary culture is Muscovite, Novgorodian or Ryazanian.
And as I said: Ryazanian is still my primary culture and is correctly listed as primary culture in my Government tab and my Sibirian colonies have Ryazanian as their culture.

I while and some patches ago I formed Russia as Novgorod and had Novgorod stayed my primary culture but unfortunety I cannot remember if I accepted other East Slavic cultures before the formation or if I had this problem and did not notice it.

As I said: I can only demote the not East Slavic cultures.

How can I add a screenshot?


The only nation which changes your primary culture on formation (which I did, there might be other) is the Roman Empire.

[Psychotic Fury]

Hmm. I wouldnt think you can demote it now that your a cultural union, as muscovite wouldnt beable to be a secondary culture.

Tbh though, i dont usually even bother promoting cultures lol, really should more often though haha.

You *could* try to unstate your muscovite states, then see if you can demote if after that, but i dont think that will work.

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

I just did some testing with console commands in a none ironman game:
1) Same situation:
Primary culture Ryazanian -> promoting Muscovite -> Forming Russia -> The used slot for Muscovite is lost

2) Other way round too:
Primary culture Ryazanian -> promoting Muscovite -> culture shift to Muscovite (Ryazanian as old primary culture automatically becomes accepted) -> Forming Russia -> Used slot for Ryazanian is lost

I think 2) also shows that it probably is not a problem of Muscovite being Russia's "default" primary culture.


However, I solved the problem with a workaround: I shifted away from East Slavic Ryanzanian to Uralic and become Ugric cultural union. Muscovite stayed accepted culture but the demote button reappeared!
I demoted Muscovite, restated my Ryazanian lands and shifted back. Now I am again East Slavic union but I have my three promoted culture slots back!

Now I have to deal with a lot of rebels from revoking estates but I think I will manage them.

[Psychotic Fury]

For #2. Did you try shifting to muscovite, then demoting ryazanian, before forming russia?

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Originally posted by Psychotic Fury:

For #2. Did you try shifting to muscovite, then demoting ryazanian, before forming russia?

I tried that too. Then there was no problem. I just did not including this as case 3).

And to be complete: 4) Ryanzanian primary culture -> forming Russia without promoting (or promoting and demoting Muscovite first) -> Russia with Ryanzanian as main culture and no problem


I did 2) to test if it is related specifically to Muscovite as Russia's default culture but there is no difference.


And a correction of something unrelated, I just remembered

Originally posted by Tulduil Iphukiir:

[...]

The only nation which changes your primary culture on formation (which I did, there might be other) is the Roman Empire.

Of course, forming Prussia changes your culture if you are not Prussian before. I did it as TO recently and therefore forgot that Brandenburg or other countries are force-shifted to Prussian.

So there might be other country formations which change your primary culture.

[Psychotic Fury]

Oh gotcha. Atleast ya know for your next game if you plan to do Russia again :)

Yeah totally forgot about brandy too. Not sure what other nations do it though.

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

If I have time over the weekend if will try the same with other formable nations with grant cultural unions, e.g. Germany. Maybe this is a problem not only for Russia.
And when I am at it: I will check if it happens with "normal emperorship" (I think it's 1000 dev) too.

Thanks for the help!

[Psychotic Fury]

Sounds good.

Yeah 1000 dev for empire rank, which grants the cultural union.

[Rabob]

Why do you promote cultures from the same group anyway? It's hardly worth the extra income/manpower and you can become an empire quite fast as Russia.

[Psychotic Fury]

Originally posted by Rabob:

Why do you promote cultures from the same group anyway? It's hardly worth the extra income/manpower and you can become an empire quite fast as Russia.

He may not have realised forming Russia would give him the C union.

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Originally posted by Psychotic Fury:

Originally posted by Rabob:

Why do you promote cultures from the same group anyway? It's hardly worth the extra income/manpower and you can become an empire quite fast as Russia.

He may not have realised forming Russia would give him the C union.

I went for the achievements "Massproduction" and "Kinslayer", therefore Odojev. I did not realize that Massproduction only requires starting as Odojev and not staying Odojev.
I did not plan to form Russia in this game or at least not for quite some time. And after my first wars I had only Ryanzanian, Muscovite (including Moscow itself) and Mishar land. I promoted the two cultures because I needed the income/manpower, even if it was not much.

When I learned that I could form Russia without disabling the achievement I quickly conquered the missing provinces from Muscovy and took the decision. I knew I would get the cultural union and that I could use the slot for something else - and then I noticed the problem.

[tuckerthebana]

Originally posted by Tulduil Iphukiir:

Originally posted by Psychotic Fury:

He may not have realised forming Russia would give him the C union.

I went for the achievements "Massproduction" and "Kinslayer", therefore Odojev. I did not realize that Massproduction only requires starting as Odojev and not staying Odojev.
I did not plan to form Russia in this game or at least not for quite some time. And after my first wars I had only Ryanzanian, Muscovite (including Moscow itself) and Mishar land. I promoted the two cultures because I needed the income/manpower, even if it was not much.

When I learned that I could form Russia without disabling the achievement I quickly conquered the missing provinces from Muscovy and took the decision. I knew I would get the cultural union and that I could use the slot for something else - and then I noticed the problem.

have you reported this issue to the bug report forum on the paradox site? They seem to check there a lot more often then this section. If you havnt thenn you definantly should since it seems like you found an actual bug

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

Originally posted by tuckerthebana:

have you reported this issue to the bug report forum on the paradox site? They seem to check there a lot more often then this section. If you havnt thenn you definantly should since it seems like you found an actual bug

As I said, I am going to test it with Germany later today to see if it is only Russia and report it at Paradox later

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

I did some testing in normal mode with heavy use of console commands. It seems the problem is specific to the tsardom as forming Germany (after promoting other German cultures) works as intended: The promoted cultures stays accepted but no longer use up a promoted culture slot.

I also sent a bug report to Paradox.