how i beat the ottomans as great horde

[Revas333]

i his allie and i need a province of them to form golden horde

[VampiricHitman]

Get Good?

[corisai]

At least post some details / screenshots of your current economy & military. There is no telepaths here. For example if you don't improved your starting position A LOT - you have no chances against otto.

[Strifeboy]

The oats are hard to beat at all points of the game by everyone.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Strifeboy:

The oats are hard to beat at all points of the game by everyone.

Not so in mid-late game if you're one of "space marines" nations.

[DankDansk]

Originally posted by Palaiologos:

Just got to mess them up fam ya know what 'm sayin'?

Try to get a geographic advantage for cavalry.

[DankDansk]

Originally posted by Strifeboy:

The oats are hard to beat at all points of the game by everyone.

The oats are scary, especially oatmeal.

[tonypa]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Strifeboy:

The oats are hard to beat at all points of the game by everyone.

Not so in mid-late game if you're one of "space marines" nations.

I don't think Great Horde is good at mid-late game. Their strength is in Cavalry and cavalry shines early, just like Ottomans do. The Hordes in general need to expand constantly or they will fall behind in tech as their economy is not great.

[corisai]

Originally posted by tonypa:

I don't think Great Horde is good at mid-late game. Their strength is in Cavalry and cavalry shines early, just like Ottomans do.

Well, AFAIK Great Horde aren't one of "space marines" nations as they don't have any +discipline bonuses. But yean, I should clarify it, so thank you for details.

[veryhungryperson]

Some more details and a picture would help give more directed advice but I'll throw my two cents in anyway.

It is possible to beat the ottomans as a horde. Although the in my experience one does have to ask after the fact if it was worth it. It is generally better to ally them in the early game and make sure you get what you need before they get there, it is generally just as hard as fighting them but better for the campaign flow in general.

The key is to fight around either a tech up in the horses you are using or fighting on a technology when additional shock damage was gained. Try and leave the any fight until later as the horde cavalry with the bonus is still competitive until around tech 18 whereas the Ottomans start to fall off a little earlier than that 13-15.

That being said all the horde caveats apply. Always fight on flat terrain. Give up any mountainous areas you have and take them back with small stacks when you can. Try and keep disc levels equal or in your advantage so your plains bonus pushes you advantage. Always peace out when you can get what you need, don't over extend for what you want; there are plenty of easier targets in the east.

If you only need or two unfortified provinces I find it is generally a pretty good strategy to get a far away ally. They can serve a distraction to extend the war much longer than a full on steppe brawl between you and the Ottomans. This reduced enthusiasm from long wars means you only need to win one or two battles to get small concessions you need from them.

[OttomanYeniceri]

first off, u need a game, where the ottomans dont ally crimean khanate. than u need ottomans as ally in the early game, against any russian or poland/ lithuania threats. destroy your fort in astrakhan and the make the astrakhan region "Institution Spread 33%". now try to conquer ryazan, odoyev, tver (take as vassel), crimean, nogay, kasan, uzbek (take only the sibir & kazakh culture lands). in the early game u can accept only 2 cultures, take ryazanian & kazakh. now u united the tatar culture and u are a economic trade power and with bashgird u have a gold mine. takedown russia & lithuania with ottoman help. through government reforms take "Reform into Republic" "your tech & units change to muslim, on military lev 15, muslim tec has a advantage over anatolian" and your first idea should be defensive & second expansion ideas, colonize everything over bashgird, u should be able now to spam armys and forts, a timurids/ transoxiana ally is indispensable. ottomans first idea is most of the time administrative, u should have now better quality armys (on military tec lev 15) and tradition, but dont forget the ottomans will spam a big pile of mercenary.

[veryhungryperson]

Originally posted by OttomanYeniceri:

first off, u need a game, where the ottomans dont ally crimean khanate. than u need ottomans as ally in the early game, against any russian or poland/ lithuania threats. destroy your fort in astrakhan and the make the astrakhan region "Institution Spread 33%". now try to counter ryazan, odoyev, tver (take as vassel), crimean, nogay, kasan, uzbek (take only the sibir & kazakh culture lands). in the early game u can accept only 2 cultures, take ryazanian & kazakh. now u united the tatar culture and u are a economic trade power and with bashgird u have a gold mine. takedown russia & lithuania with ottoman help. through government reforms take "Reform into Republic" "your tech & units change to muslim, on military lev 15, muslim tec has a advantage over anatolian" and your first idea should be defensive & second expansion ideas, colonize everything over bashgird, u should be able now to spam armys and forts, a timurids/ transoxiana ally is indispensable. ottomans first idea is most of the time administrative, u should have now better quality armys (on military tec lev 15) and tradition, but dont forget the ottomans will spam a big pile of mercenary.

Unfortunately you need to have the Steppe Nomad reform in order to form the Golden Horde. You are right though with the strategy though.

The strategy I followed to form the Mongol Empire was:

Rival Ryzan, Crimea and Kazan. Ally Uzbek. Ally/Improve relations with Ottomans to ally them, restart if they ally Crimea.
11 Dec 1444 war Ryzan and take there land as it has feudalism, vassalise Tver if they are in the war.
Take the tribal kingdom to the south as your vassal. These vassals make up your siege troops.
Take Crimea. Call if Uzbek if you need the help. If you also have to fight your next target only take cash for shorter truce.
Take the horde you set as rival at the start, Uzbek will have allied the other
Take the other horde, taking Uzbek's cash and watching them fall into a death spiral.
You should be ready to fight Muscovy, although you can sometimes squeeze it in a bit earlier if they stumble on a hard Novgorod alliance. Make sure you have tech parity, preferably advantage, have +10% disc and only fight in the steeps. If you are not confident then get the Ottomans to beat them up for you.

At that point the game becomes a little more fluid you cross the mountains to the south and start taking parts of Persia. Depending on the Timurid status this might require help from the Ottomans for the first war. Once you get to India you are home free really.

[OttomanYeniceri]

Originally posted by veryhungryperson:

Unfortunately you need to have the Steppe Nomad reform in order to form the Golden Horde. You are right though with the strategy though.

my bad bro, i read only the header "how i beat the ottomans as great horde"
and after your writing, i saw his second "i his allie and i need a province of them to form golden horde" ^^

your strategy is good too...
to stay horde, u can go the same way like i write, but u have to raze everything, to stay high in tec as Horde, and pick first techs Aristocratic & Innovative

[Revas333]

thank you all

[Revas333]

i beat the ottomans