Ottoman Ideas

[Chief Redhawks (TL) L~T]

OK I may have asked this before, I don't remember. But what would the first 2 idea groups to take as Ottoman

[Amtep]

I would take Influence because you have all those lovely vassalizable states around you, and Humanism because Ottomans work better if you don't convert provinces. Non-muslim provinces give you Dhimmi estate bonuses + janissaries.

[Chief Redhawks (TL) L~T]

Thanks

[nekoman]

Either Admin for CCR or Defensive, just because it's so good early game.

[Matze3]

Admin or influence first and second(depending on situation) then religious for the cb(simply too nice for european conquests)

[Gerfreckle]

Originally posted by Amtep:

I would take Influence because you have all those lovely vassalizable states around you, and Humanism because Ottomans work better if you don't convert provinces. Non-muslim provinces give you Dhimmi estate bonuses + janissaries.

These are always the first two I take with the Ottomans.

[Camo_Killer8]

Might be a bit late here, but you should always avoid taking an admin idea group first, the reasoning for this is that the second idea group is only 2 techs away and by taking an admin group you are delaying the second one.

Influence is a great first pick, saves mana and AE on vassals.
This is better than CCR in the early game and the rest of the admin idea group is pretty bad anyways.

Defensive can be quite good as well, but if you are used to playing EU4 then you won't need it. the morale is incredible, the military tradition idea saves you from having more forts than you need to keep it up. The attrition bonus to enemies and reduction to your armies can be useful later on and the general pips are ok.

Diplo is another great pick to improve relations around you and avoid coalitions. The extra relation slots mean that you can vassal swarm and the extra diplo again helps with aggressive expansion but also allows you to integrate vassals faster.

These are my top 3 picks for the first idea group for most campaigns.

For a second group Admin or Innovative can save you a lot of mana. I would not recommend getting Humanist or religious this early on as unrest will still be a small problem.
An underrated idea group that is often overlooked is autocracy/plutocracy depending on if you are a monarchy or republic (plutocracy is better, fight me....).

[Yaldabaoth]

Originally posted by Camo_Killer8TAH:

An underrated idea group that is often overlooked is autocracy/plutocracy depending on if you are a monarchy or republic (plutocracy is better, fight me....).

Play Netherlands, get both.

[Kapika96]

Religious first. A military group (quantity is probably most useful) 2nd.

Religious is just a great group. The Deus Vult CB is amazing. Can use that on any European and most places beyond the middle east too. Makes conquest quicker, cheaper and generates less AE. Plus cheaper, faster and more missionaries is a nice bonus too.

Military because why not make your already superior army even more superior? I tend to shy away from quantity, it's not really needed as the Ottomans and I don't want to use it every game either, that gets boring, but it probably is the most useful one. Cheaper armies, more armies, faster manpower restoration... all massively useful things!

[Matze3]

Originally posted by Camo_Killer8TAH:

Might be a bit late here, but you should always avoid taking an admin idea group first, the reasoning for this is that the second idea group is only 2 techs away and by taking an admin group you are delaying the second one.

Influence is a great first pick, saves mana and AE on vassals.
This is better than CCR in the early game and the rest of the admin idea group is pretty bad anyways.

i can understand why you try to avoid picking an admin idea first but there is so much to core for ottomans that it is really useful even this early and the reduced admin cost for many things balances taking it first...especially if your strong starting king is still alive...influence first:/ i rarely do that.. most of the times you don't have that many vassals that early for it to be a good first pick

[veryhungryperson]

I recommend the admin idea group first as the Ottomans. Taking the first three ideas in the group and then moving on to tech 7 before rounding out the group.

As the Ottomans you will be coring a lot of land so getting the CCR reduction from your national ideas and the admin group is very important. Top it off with admin technology cost reduction at the end and you can bounce back to on par with tech very quickly while continuing constant conquests.

As a second idea group I usually take Diplomatic so I can take more land and manage any problematic diplomatic situations although the Ottoman starting leader starts with a high military score so you can sometimes sneak in an military group if you are struggling with diplomatic points.

The third idea group is much more adaptive then the others and what to take depends solely on the game. Generally the Ottomans don't need a military group at tech 10 as they still have better units so Religious ideas for conquests outside the mission tree or Humanist if you are struggling with rebels. The tech 10 group is fairly flexible to what you feel you need.

If you have reached a point where you want to consolidate a little bit then Economic can help you lay down the foundations for Empire as can Trade if you are planning on taking India. If you want to continue to expand aggressively then taking military groups at 10 and 14 can push your advantage while you still have it, just be sure to have rulers with good military scores.

[Camo_Killer8]

Originally posted by Matze3:

Originally posted by Camo_Killer8TAH:

Might be a bit late here, but you should always avoid taking an admin idea group first, the reasoning for this is that the second idea group is only 2 techs away and by taking an admin group you are delaying the second one.

Influence is a great first pick, saves mana and AE on vassals.
This is better than CCR in the early game and the rest of the admin idea group is pretty bad anyways.

i can understand why you try to avoid picking an admin idea first but there is so much to core for ottomans that it is really useful even this early and the reduced admin cost for many things balances taking it first...especially if your strong starting king is still alive...influence first:/ i rarely do that.. most of the times you don't have that many vassals that early for it to be a good first pick

You already get -25% CCR from ottoman ideas, you really don't need the extra 25%. There are plenty European and middle eastern vassals that you can get which influence will cut down the cost for.

If you take influence first, you get -50% unjustified demands which saves more diplo than you would lose in admin and by not taking admin ideas first, you can rush your 2nd group and take admin then.
You won't have taken enough cores to make use of the extra 25% by the 2nd group and if you have, then you are not managing your AE properly and should be using vassals like Syria and Wallachia. You also get less unrest from vassals, less AE in general, and if you take at least the 2 I've just mentioned then you get 2 beefy support militaries to further boost you and avoid micro.
You save both monarch points vs saving just one and you can even rush finishing influence unlike admin because diplo tech is not important.
Taking them in this order and using vassals to keep coring costs down means you have lots of spare mana for other uses such developing your provinces to boost your eco into space.

I don't dislike Admin ideas, however taking them first is a waste of mana and you it could even be argued that even taking them is a waste of a group, just ask Siu_King or Arrumba, Admin is not as good as it used to be, espcially since trade companies do away with the need for the extra states.
(same goes for humanist and religious but playing without one of those is painful whereas you can avoid coring early game and spam absolutism later on.)

I love paying stupidly low admin for coring but I like seeing my AE just as low as my admin costs.

[Stormy Waters]

If you go coptic or othrodox take religious. 25% less AE on land taken and no need to fabricate so you can save bird mana. But it may be a good idea to take diplo first since your going to make bringing the word of christ to the heathens with your built in CCR untill you can get admin. Cant say i have ever stayed sunni or vasalized anything as the ottomans.
Next should be admin. After that it is up to you. Offensive is great, if you need money take trade and get TCs.

[Chief Redhawks (TL) L~T]

As Ottoman think I'm going to stay same Religious group. I think you get something for doing so if I remember right.

[Stormy Waters]

Originally posted by Chief Redhawks (TL) L~T:

As Ottoman think I'm going to stay same Religious group. I think you get something for doing so if I remember right.

They have one of the best governments in the game so it is absolutely worth it to learn the Sunni mechanics too! They are a pretty fun nation with many ways to play them

[Chief Redhawks (TL) L~T]

Yea, I'm going slow. But made dumb mistake I have three vassals now lol.