as Oirat, should I become a tributary of Ming?

[Server Jester]

Also where should I expand first, can't really get any good alliances other than some Manchurians and Chagatai allies both Uzbek and Nogai while Uzbek allies Great Horde Chagatai and Nogai

[CreutzFeldJak0b]

it depends what you want to do.
i personally think its best to attack ming as soon as possible because they will only get stronger.
i just started a game and some of the recent changes actually benefit you greatly.
i would build up my forces to the limit (cavalry!!!), make sure that mongolia is loyal, make some alliances and then wait until ming declares war.
they might declare on you first but its unlikely if u build up your forces and have some alliances.
in my case they declared on korchin.
once they are at war wait a couple of month and attack.
you will easily wipe the floor with them if you attack on flat terrain.
in my case, one of the new events fired where i captured the emperor and was able to get a bejing, some other provinces and a whole lot of money.

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by CreutzFeldJak0b:

it depends what you want to do.
i personally think its best to attack ming as soon as possible because they will only get stronger.
i just started a game and some of the recent changes actually benefit you greatly.
i would build up my forces to the limit (cavalry!!!), make sure that mongolia is loyal and, make some alliances and then wait until ming declares war.
they might declare on you first but its unlikely if u build up your forces and have some alliances.
in my case they declared on korchin.
once they are at war wait a couple of month attack.
you will easily wipe the floor with them if you attack on flat terrain.
in my case, one of the new events fired where i captured the emperor and was able to get a bejing, some other provinces and a whole lot of money.

Would I be able to stop Ming? they are the most powerful nation at the start.
also who should I aim for allies? would Manchurians be enough or should I try to get one of the Tatars like Uzbek

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by Jolin:

The Ming have an event that makes them "implode" if they are bordered by a horde with 300 development or more. So, you can accept to be their tributary, just so you can eat their other tributaries until you reach 300 dev. Then you just have to wait for them to implode, cancel tributary and pick up the pieces.

When Ming starts imploding it's a glorious failcascade, you will be able to beat them with nothing more than 30k or so. Just wait for their manpower to be in the toilet before declaring war, and try to dodge their rebels, they'll be spawning all over the place.

thanks for the info
now im just waiting for Uzbek to go to war with someone else so I can attack Chagatai
I also noticed that I can annex Mongolia now, though it will be finished in 1460
should I start annexation progress now?

[CreutzFeldJak0b]

you can do that but its really not necessary.
your mil tech is worse than mings but your cavalry is much better and you have a very good general.
also since your are a tengri horde you can field 100% cavalry.

you can easily get a very good warscore with the horde cb and cripple ming.

[Server Jester]

also, Uzbek seems different now, did they get changed in the Manchu update? they seem....bigger

[CreutzFeldJak0b]

iam not sure about uzbek but they changed a couple of nations and added development and provinces

[Server Jester]

went to war with Chagatai and Uzbek
War lasted way too long, so long that Uzbek and Chagatai tribes showed up and undid every thing I accomplished and I ran out of manpower

[Server Jester]

Alright I cannot expand anywhere as Oirat cause Chagatai keeps allying the Tatars and Uzbek does the same
Tried war with ming but it ended badly
im playing Mongolia instead

[IndirectHero]

In my gameplay, I just allied Korchin. Ming will declare war on them because they want that province that belongs to their capital province. Plus they are also not a tributary state. Surprisingly, the strong khan leader that Oirat has is the morale bonus plus a general with a level 5 shock was able to stack wiped the ming troops.

Plus you get an event if you siege Ming capital. You get all of northern china under your control. Which makes wining easy. As you can see in my screenshot, that war they lost made them get rebels spawns crazy.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1866768155

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by PunishedMuskovy:

Alright I cannot expand anywhere as Oirat cause Chagatai keeps allying the Tatars and Uzbek does the same
Tried war with ming but it ended badly
im playing Mongolia instead

Retry it, use the cores Mongolia has on Korchin to declare on them.

Then just expand into Manchuria.

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Originally posted by PunishedMuskovy:

Alright I cannot expand anywhere as Oirat cause Chagatai keeps allying the Tatars and Uzbek does the same
Tried war with ming but it ended badly
im playing Mongolia instead

Retry it, use the cores Mongolia has on Korchin to declare on them.

Then just expand into Manchuria.

am I able to take the Korchin land for myself or do I have to feed Mongolia?

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by IndirectHero:

In my gameplay, I just allied Korchin. Ming will declare war on them because they want that province that belongs to their capital province. Plus they are also not a tributary state. Surprisingly, the strong khan leader that Oirat has is the morale bonus plus a general with a level 5 shock was able to stack wiped the ming troops.

Plus you get an event if you siege Ming capital. You get all of northern china under your control. Which makes wining easy. As you can see in my screenshot, that war they lost made them get rebels spawns crazy.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1866768155

what if Korchin reaches Beijing before me?

[IndirectHero]

Originally posted by PunishedMuskovy:

Originally posted by IndirectHero:

In my gameplay, I just allied Korchin. Ming will declare war on them because they want that province that belongs to their capital province. Plus they are also not a tributary state. Surprisingly, the strong khan leader that Oirat has is the morale bonus plus a general with a level 5 shock was able to stack wiped the ming troops.

Plus you get an event if you siege Ming capital. You get all of northern china under your control. Which makes wining easy. As you can see in my screenshot, that war they lost made them get rebels spawns crazy.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1866768155

what if Korchin reaches Beijing before me?

Well since Ming declared war on them. I'm assume their army were rioted. Since I was able to get there with no other army on Beijing

[Ángel]

You can easily destroy them now from the start with the oirats, just attack them, destroy the army commanded by the ming emperor and then go directly to beijing.

[Fellini_Fiend]

I was trying for the new Oirat event chain myself but I wasn’t sure about the one thing in the code for the first event that says that mil cannot equal 2. My assumption was that that means Ming cannot have 2 advancements into mil tech but wasn’t sure.

Either way I also fell just a little short of the other big requirement for the first event because it was just barely the year 1500 when I declared my first Ming war so I was ineligible for the event chain anyway.

Nevertheless, the power that is Ming is now gone after that first war I had where I only took a few provinces from them including the obvious Beijing and then released two vassals (Shun and Liang) so that I did not suffer from too much overextension.

But just before I released them did any coding or razing I went bankrupt because I had already taken on too much debt up to that point from all of my constant expansion throughout the Asian Steppe and Manchuria. And obviously it was a planned bankruptcy as I took all the steps to make I was in a good position to not have any problems like getting to +3 stability so that it only drops down to 0 rather than into the negative. Also I kept myself from doing any razing until after I clicked on the bankruptcy button so that when I razed the land after I could get ahead on the monarch point generation.

Since then Ming has gotten the event to release Dali as a march who has been rebellious from the start, and I have conquered the rest of the North China region and will now be looking to the south to the last two regions in China. Oh also the little state that starts existing on Taiwan through an event also happened so I can freely get Taiwan without any colonizing as well.

Gotta day, as far as steppe nomads go, Oirat has become one of my favorite horde experiences with their new strong ideas set and obviously the fact that Mongolia is no longer a historical rival is a pretty big deal.

FeelsHordeMan