Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

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heiko 2016 年 12 月 14 日 上午 8:53
a question about cavalry
so normally when the infantry count is lower than cavalry you get a negative bonus so lets say my infantry is 8 and my cavalry is 8 and i don't have the bonus, then i get into a battle is there a chance that one of my infantry man could die and i would get the negative bonus ?
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equinox1911 2016 年 12 月 14 日 上午 9:07 
yes.
Laladen 2016 年 12 月 14 日 上午 10:35 
You are discussing what is called in EU4 as Insufficient Support. You're essentially referring to a 50% Insufficient Support Infantry to cavalry ratio.

Each nation in EU4 belongs to a Tech group. The tech group that your nation belongs to determines what your Insufficient Support ratio is.

Western: 50%
Eastern: 60%
Anatolian: 50%
Muslim: 80%
Indian: 50%
Chinese: 50%
Nomad: 100%
Sub-Saharan: 50%
New World: 50%

If the percentage of calvary remaining in your army exceeds the percentages above for the applicable tech group. Your army will instantly receive the Insufficient Support penalty. I say "remaining" & "instantly" on purpose because this percentage changes during a battle and if at any point the percentage exceeds those above for your tech group, you will receive the Insufficient Support penalty until the percentage is below the above parameters. In combat, this ratio percentage is checked daily. Be warey if your skirting this percentage exactly. The loss of one infantry can easily apply this penalty, even for one or two combat ticks and will devastate your army.

What does Insufficient Support do?

Military Tactics gets a -25% penalty. This is battle ending. The further along in tech levels you progress, the more harsh this penalty becomes. It in essence means your army will take 25% more damage while this penalty is applied.

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Land_warfare#Insufficient_support
最后由 Laladen 编辑于; 2016 年 12 月 14 日 上午 10:38
heiko 2016 年 12 月 14 日 上午 11:03 
引用自 Fedaykin
You are discussing what is called in EU4 as Insufficient Support. You're essentially referring to a 50% Insufficient Support Infantry to cavalry ratio.

Each nation in EU4 belongs to a Tech group. The tech group that your nation belongs to determines what your Insufficient Support ratio is.

Western: 50%
Eastern: 60%
Anatolian: 50%
Muslim: 80%
Indian: 50%
Chinese: 50%
Nomad: 100%
Sub-Saharan: 50%
New World: 50%

If the percentage of calvary remaining in your army exceeds the percentages above for the applicable tech group. Your army will instantly receive the Insufficient Support penalty. I say "remaining" & "instantly" on purpose because this percentage changes during a battle and if at any point the percentage exceeds those above for your tech group, you will receive the Insufficient Support penalty until the percentage is below the above parameters. In combat, this ratio percentage is checked daily. Be warey if your skirting this percentage exactly. The loss of one infantry can easily apply this penalty, even for one or two combat ticks and will devastate your army.

What does Insufficient Support do?

Military Tactics gets a -25% penalty. This is battle ending. The further along in tech levels you progress, the more harsh this penalty becomes. It in essence means your army will take 25% more damage while this penalty is applied.

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Land_warfare#Insufficient_support
aight thanks, i reformed my army i play as ottomans, do you think 8 infantry,7 cavalry and 5 artillery is good ? this is all of my armies all of them have this combination.
equinox1911 2016 年 12 月 14 日 上午 11:19 
Way too much cav, and never do an odd number of cav. That early i would suggest only a max of 4. Infantry will always be deplayed in the middle and thus take the most dmg so having a good 70 - 80% is normally well worth the time.

Also i think it's more like 22.5% more losses, but that is still battle loosing.
Laladen 2016 年 12 月 14 日 上午 11:48 
There are several schools of thought on your question. I am bias towards one, but I will try to keep that out of the discussion until the end.

All units have a stat which is not well displayed or discussed in the game itself. This is called Flanking Range. Every unit has this stat, it is not unique to calvary. But calvary makes more use from it than infantry. Infantry start the game with 1 flanking range, cavalry and artillery start with 2. Flanking range also decreases very rapidly as the unit is damaged.

It is the amount of horizontal squares in which that unit can stretch to make an attack. So if the enemy unit in front of the unit is either dead or not present because your front line is longer, the units will stretch to the side to make an attack. IIRC these "flanking attacks" will always point to the center of the front line. Because default flanking range for calvary at the start is only 2, it does not make sense to load up on calvary merely for this stat alone. The reason people like to use a 50% calvary ratio early is that the total damage from an early western group calvary is greater than the damage of an early western group infantry.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=818291617

However, all of the damage inflicted by the early western group calvary is in the shock phase of combat, which happens second. The fire phase of combat is always first. The Infantry unit in this screenshot will do .35 damage (pre-mitigation, pre-general, pre-roll, pre-everything) in the Fire phase of combat which lasts 3 days. Any unit damaged by this will have its strength lowered. Lower strength units deal less damage. (Yes I also understand the numbers in the screenshot do not actually represent damage)

Next the Shock phase happens for 3 days. Calvary which previously had an advantage, may not anymore. So a cavalry with 1 shock is not really dealing 1 shock damage. Plus the infantry is still dealing .5 damage during this phase, unless it was damaged by other infantry during the Fire phase as well.

(What I am about to say applies to Western tech group only, and is merely my opinion on the early game. I am aware the wiki contradicts what I am stating below)

My opinion of this process in the early game is that at best, it's a wash in the combat (being at the ratio with calvary), but you're paying double the cost for that wash. Plus you're going to pay out the nose to re-enforce those extra calvary.

Early game I run 2 calvary only per army only for the flanking range on the end of the line in case my army's front line is larger. The calvary can stretch inward and have the enemy units on the end attacked by multiple units of mine. As flanking range increases I will add more cavalry, but I am never close to the 50% ratio (as Western). Also this decision can be altered by the country your playing. Some countries are swimming in ducats at the start of the game and the cost is not a factor.
最后由 Laladen 编辑于; 2016 年 12 月 14 日 下午 12:22
Good Dragon 2016 年 12 月 14 日 下午 1:06 
I recomedlnd this tutorial. Useful to understand why not so much cav:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nPvdzDMIKMM
Good Dragon 2016 年 12 月 14 日 下午 1:09 
Laladen 2016 年 12 月 14 日 下午 3:14 
引用自 Wilkojak
sorry there's the link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nPvdzDMIKMM

Person in this video states to fill the front line totally and then a few extra infantry. This is very suboptimal.

Troops in the front line beyond flanking range are simply taking morale damage that is unnecessary. Optimally, before a battle where the enemy is NOT at their combat width, you will remove these excess troops and merely be at their combat width + your flanking range preferably with calvary, but remember infantry flank as well, just 50% less (Also, Artillery flanks at the same range as cavalry, but keep them away from the front line!). All troops in a battle take morale damage regardless if they are actually fighting or able to fight.

If the battle starts to go poorly you can move those excess troops into the fight and their 100% morale will be averaged into the fight and hopefully the new troops will replace the dead troops (this does not always happen because reasons, but this happens regardless of whether they started the battle or joined later). This is the best way to approach any fight where the enemy is not at the combat width max, but you are at a high tech that increases combat width.
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发帖日期: 2016 年 12 月 14 日 上午 8:53
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