is saxony just basically a worse bohemia/brandenburg?

[Raz]

it seems like brandenburg (prussian ideas and location) and bohemia (gold, development, location) are just better then saxony in every way.
is this true?

[freestyler-rs]

no. Saxony's ideas point you in the direction of a protestant diplomatic powerhouse. Brandenburg says protestant military powerhouse and Bohemia says "contest that imperial crown immediately and/or be the protestant emperor when Austria is beaten". If you force Saxony on the things the others are meant to do, then obviously they will be better. Saxony can form Prussia, but it does not mean it has to or should. Allying Poland and milking them for points and playing "tall" is the historical path and the one the ideas reflect.

[Rommel]

Saxony is weaker than the other 2 for sure.

[Raz]

Originally posted by freestyler-rs:

no. Saxony's ideas point you in the direction of a protestant diplomatic powerhouse. Brandenburg says protestant military powerhouse and Bohemia says "contest that imperial crown immediately and/or be the protestant emperor when Austria is beaten". If you force Saxony on the things the others are meant to do, then obviously they will be better. Saxony can form Prussia, but it does not mean it has to or should. Allying Poland and milking them for points and playing "tall" is the historical path and the one the ideas reflect.

i hate playing tall.. :(

[Pomoschnik]

You know prussia is also meant to be played tall, don't you? their govenment punishes them for having a lot of provinces, just like merchant republics

[Raz]

Originally posted by O Soldado Bolado:

You know prussia is also meant to be played tall, don't you? their govenment punishes them for having a lot of provinces, just like merchant republics

it doesnt punish for too many provinces, it only removes the powerful buffs of the prussian monarchy.

[Pomoschnik]

yeah, thats pretty much a punishment, it is a lot more expensive to keep militarization high, the game does that because Prussia historically has been a middle sized nation until after Napoleon, also the whole north eastern germany was very underdeveloped by the 15th century, but it ends up very developed (berlin begins with 12 development and in the end game it has over 35). Thats why they are MEANT to be played tall, just like in history.

[the_panther]

Having recently completed the Meissner Porcelain achievement, I can say that I did not feel hampered in the slightest by my NI set. In fact, I thought the idea set was extremely good with all those superb economic and diplomatic benefits , thus allowing me to eventually colonize hard core in eastern Asia. Sure, the only military NI was 5% discipline, but I still did not have any problems eventually fighting Emperor Ming.

The only NI I did not like was Wittenburg University. I would have prefered +3 to Heathens instead of Hereitics. But this is probably because the achievement drives you to Asia instead of expanding more in Europe.

I also had no problem playing a full mix of tall plus wide. Saxony is meant to be a mid-tier HRE nation, but has the added advantage of being an elector to make an alliance with the Emperor easier. I was perfectly happy to keep Austria on the throne and then Bohemia after the big war. To me, being allied to the Emperor seems a much more relaxing HRE playthrough than actually being the Emperor.

[Raz]

Originally posted by O Soldado Bolado:

yeah, thats pretty much a punishment, it is a lot more expensive to keep militarization high, the game does that because Prussia historically has been a middle sized nation until after Napoleon, also the whole north eastern germany was very underdeveloped by the 15th century, but it ends up very developed (berlin begins with 12 development and in the end game it has over 35). Thats why they are MEANT to be played tall, just like in history.

you can just NOT keep up militarization..

[Raz]

Originally posted by the_panther:

Having recently completed the Meissner Porcelain achievement, I can say that I did not feel hampered in the slightest by my NI set. In fact, I thought the idea set was extremely good with all those superb economic and diplomatic benefits , thus allowing me to eventually colonize hard core in eastern Asia. Sure, the only military NI was 5% discipline, but I still did not have any problems eventually fighting Emperor Ming.

The only NI I did not like was Wittenburg University. I would have prefered +3 to Heathens instead of Hereitics. But this is probably because the achievement drives you to Asia instead of expanding more in Europe.

I also had no problem playing a full mix of tall plus wide. Saxony is meant to be a mid-tier HRE nation, but has the added advantage of being an elector to make an alliance with the Emperor easier. I was perfectly happy to keep Austria on the throne and then Bohemia after the big war. To me, being allied to the Emperor seems a much more relaxing HRE playthrough than actually being the Emperor.

i personally hate being the emperor, its so difficult all the time, and after the reformation it gets super stressful. you either abandon the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ imperial authiroty thing or work really hard to keep things catholic

[Aedile]

It's not so much that they are weaker or their ideas are bad (they are very good diplomatically), it's just they need a different playstyle, and more landlocked by brandenburg (but less than bohemia).

Brandenburg is actually pretty crappy at the start, people just see those prussian ideas and get crazy over them, and if you plan staying catholic, thus not forming prussia - is the only way to get them.

But their ideas don't really shine until you open the army professionalism etc..

I hate saxony as it's very difficult to get sea, or grab those teutonic provinces.

But here is a hint.

You are going to have far easier time with Pomerania. It's probably the most neglected nation in the HRE. It does not look like much, pretty poor development and stuff... But its easiest nation to form form prussia (with the caveat that if you are not elector you will leave the HRE). Your starting army is better quality than brandenburg, you have navy and you are on far better position on the map to grab the teutonic lands before the polish do.

It is simply there to show how dumb the AI really is. If you play pomerania (or saxony for that matter), branderburg can be partitioned in the first war. There is aways enough neighbours to hate them, so you can simply promise land and dow them with 3-4 allies (they border way too many contries). Partition and then you have enough favours to mass DoW the teutons. After you core and stuff you'll be bigger and richer than even bohemia (though it probably grew some too as your ally). Then basiacally try to ellect yourself as the emperor. I usually don't because I can be considered small, rival the smal princes and show strength for MP. and then basically play pirate all over the world which is pretty hilarious. You don't like me - talk to the emperor. Not that it matters at that point as you probably kick portugals ass every decade to get their moneys...

[wakey wakey]

Atm you kinda play as teutonic order(the easy way), brandenburg(still easy but requires a bit more knowledge about the game) or austria(really easy if you got invested into the pu game) if you want to start as a german nation.

Bohemia on the other hand is even while they start with a goldmine one of the worst starts in the hre just like most of the other hre factions and for certain not a better starting position than saxony.

[Raz]

Originally posted by Aedile:

It's not so much that they are weaker or their ideas are bad (they are very good diplomatically), it's just they need a different playstyle, and more landlocked by brandenburg (but less than bohemia).

Brandenburg is actually pretty crappy at the start, people just see those prussian ideas and get crazy over them, and if you plan staying catholic, thus not forming prussia - is the only way to get them.

But their ideas don't really shine until you open the army professionalism etc..

I hate saxony as it's very difficult to get sea, or grab those teutonic provinces.

But here is a hint.

You are going to have far easier time with Pomerania. It's probably the most neglected nation in the HRE. It does not look like much, pretty poor development and stuff... But its easiest nation to form form prussia (with the caveat that if you are not elector you will leave the HRE). Your starting army is better quality than brandenburg, you have navy and you are on far better position on the map to grab the teutonic lands before the polish do.

It is simply there to show how dumb the AI really is. If you play pomerania (or saxony for that matter), branderburg can be partitioned in the first war. There is aways enough neighbours to hate them, so you can simply promise land and dow them with 3-4 allies (they border way too many contries). Partition and then you have enough favours to mass DoW the teutons. After you core and stuff you'll be bigger and richer than even bohemia (though it probably grew some too as your ally). Then basiacally try to ellect yourself as the emperor. I usually don't because I can be considered small, rival the smal princes and show strength for MP. and then basically play pirate all over the world which is pretty hilarious. You don't like me - talk to the emperor. Not that it matters at that point as you probably kick portugals ass every decade to get their moneys...

i find the teutons amazingly easy to form prussia with, all you gotta do is get into the hre, gift some moners to austria and boom, you are on your way for prussia, in the meantime, you can get brandenburg, pomerania and mecklenburg, livonians, riga, really everyone..