Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

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CondorDrake Nov 13, 2017 @ 5:31am
Money Problems -> Ottomans
Hi there,

I'm currently trying a WC run with the Ottomans. While expansion works well and I'm doing fine in general, I'm having a terribly hard time managing my money. Got 3 loans already, and with the army slider down to 0% I'm making -8.5 ducats a month. Once corruption is back to 0 after I conquered new provinces and made them cores, I'm roughly breaking even.

I have an army limit of 90, but can't afford to support more than around 30k troops. Got no mercenaries and just a small fleet below the force limit.

I'm currently only surviving by being at war all the time and taking money from the enemies, but that doesn't really solve the problem of a broken economy.

I just don't know how to improve my income. With only two merchants, there isn't much I could do I guess. Being limited to 20 states doesn't help either.

I've completed influence ideas and am close to completing admin ideas.

Is there any display which shows which possible states would create the most benefit?
Does anybody have some tips about how to increase income?
Last edited by CondorDrake; Nov 13, 2017 @ 5:34am
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Rumi (Banned) Nov 13, 2017 @ 5:34am 
Originally posted by Equinox:
Hi there,

I'm currently trying a WC run with the Ottomans. While expansion works well and I'm doing fine in general, I'm having a terribly hard time managing my money. Got 3 loans already, and with the army slider down to 0% I'm making -8.5 ducats a month. Once corruption is back to 0 after I conquered new provinces and made them cores, I'm roughly breaking even.

I have an army limit of 90, but can't afford to support more than around 30k troops. Got no mercenaries and just a small fleet below the force limit.

I just don't know how to improve my income. With only two merchants, there isn't much I could do I guess. Being limited to 20 states doesn't help either.

I've completed influence ideas and am close to completing admin ideas.

Is there any display which shows which possible states would create the most benefit?
Does anybody have some tips about how to increase income?

try using that infamous ottoman army

you gotta spend money to make money
the_panther Nov 13, 2017 @ 7:12am 
Sounds like it is too late for you and a restart is likely looming. My money advice:

1. Forts. Delete them. You are on offense. The only fort to keep temporarily is a province where a revolt is expected to occur as this gives you the defense bonus plus time. If the revolt is not going to occur or already happened, delete the fort.

2. Revolts. These are insidiously expensive. And the #1 reason I went Humanist as the first idea set in my Ottoman WC. It stacks with the Ottoman tolerance and you will therefore never want to spend any gold converting provinces. Once you complete this idea set, you likely will never again increase autonomy to prevent revolts.

3. Turn off Common Sense. Long term, this will save more points for coring and vassal integration than admin and influence ideas ever will. Excess military ponts are better served rolling a good general and the occasional harsh treatment or increase legitimacy. Every single time an AI develops a province, this costs you dearly.

4. Fight more smaller wars. The first thing you do in selecting a peace deal is to chose war reparations and all money before deciding on provinces to take. Two shorter wars to annex is usually fine, as long as you have multiple front lines. This also helps manage AE. Always take only money from enemy allies unless you selected them as co-belligerent.

5. Loot. This is often VERY overlooked. Separate out your cavalry and keep them in occupied provinces since calvary loot 3 times faster than infantry and 6 times faster than cannons. Move them to another province when the loot is depleted. You do not have to take the peace deal right away when loot remains.

6. Cavalry use. Do not seige a province with cavalry since the attrition will eat your money. Ottomans do not really need cavalry even in a battle since they have great infantry. Replenshing and replacing calvary is 2.5 times more expensive than infantry. Cavalry are mostly used for looting.

7. Coalitions. Watch this at all costs. Nothing slows you down more or costs more gold than fighting against a large coalition. I had two coalitions against me in my WC. The first was early in India which was rather costly. The second coalition was the entire HRE somewhere in the 1600s when I invaded Europe through Russia and the PLC. I was so strong by then (owned 100% of Asia and about 50% of Africa) that the HRE was nothing to me.

8. Mercs. Avoid these except perhaps for revolts. Go slower if you have to since you should have lots of time. I finished my WC in 1764 and even took it leisurely over the last 75 years to allieviate the painful micro managing.

9. Strive to keep piety as negative as possible. You don't need the fort bonus nor the missionary strength. And the morale boost is not necassary for the Ottoman Empire.

10. Do not make any alliances. You are in this alone. Use vassals for the needed royal marriages. Nothing is worse than spending time and money being called into a defensive war to help a nation like Tunis or Great Horde.
northernwater Nov 13, 2017 @ 8:56am 
I did a great Ottoman run and deleted only a few forts in conquered provinces. I always play with all DLC available. It does not seem right to drop DLC. I had lots of cash and always paid off the Janissaries to keep that mil bonus.

I did go Humanist, also, but even with Humanist you need to do conversions when you get huge.

You have to learn how to play an economic game. Spend time on learning this and you will rarely have money problems. There are many, many, many ways to make ducats in EU4.
the_panther Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:18am 
Originally posted by northernwater:
I did a great Ottoman run and deleted only a few forts in conquered provinces. I always play with all DLC available. It does not seem right to drop DLC. I had lots of cash and always paid off the Janissaries to keep that mil bonus.

I did go Humanist, also, but even with Humanist you need to do conversions when you get huge.

You have to learn how to play an economic game. Spend time on learning this and you will rarely have money problems. There are many, many, many ways to make ducats in EU4.

Ah, but did you complete the World Conquest? That is what I was talking about here.

Playing for fun is MUCH different. I doubt I have the energy or inclination to do the Three Mountains, as it takes insane micro. One WC is enough and I find doing the other achievements much more relaxing when I play sort of 'normal'.

In my WC, I deleted all forts and never once converted any province. Towards the end, I recall supporting an army of around 700K. And I was not as good a player back then as I am now.
northernwater Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:26am 
True, not a world conquest. It was a very aggresive run though, and I never had money problems from day one. The OP has money problems very early. What year did you stop at. I had almost 1300K force limit.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=914473309

northernwater Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:30am 
I started my game simpkly going for the Master of India achievment, but had so much fun attacking Ming that I pretty much ignored Europe. I was amazed at how strong the French military is late game. Wow! I should have cnosumed France very early on.
the_panther Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:31am 
I completed the WC in year 1764. I recall my force limit was well over 1M.

I did get lazy at the end and quit spending money and building forces.
Last edited by the_panther; Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:33am
Rensi Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:33am 
As long as you are expanding historically and not doing things really wrong, you shouldn't ever have money problems as Ottomans. Even though it's not an end node, Constantinople is a really good trade node when you control Crimea, Aleppo, Alexandria and Basra. Early humanist and trade ideas is a must for a stable Ottoman economy and expansion.
northernwater Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:33am 
Here is my income. I'm paying 211 in fort manitenance.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=914473264

Here are my ideas. What ideas did you go with?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=914473210
Last edited by northernwater; Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:33am
northernwater Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:36am 
Originally posted by the_panther:
I completed the WC in year 1764. I recall my force limit was well over 1M.
1000K seems low for owning the whole world.
the_panther Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:38am 
Originally posted by northernwater:
What ideas did you go with?

Only thing I remeber for sure was Humanist first. And I went Offense and Admin and Exploration as my next 3, I believe.

After that, I don't know.

This is the only screenshot I saved from that run:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=563186289
Last edited by the_panther; Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:39am
northernwater Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:49am 
Originally posted by the_panther:

This is the only screenshot I saved from that run:
Very interesting screen shot. Thanks! What DLC was this I don't see Power Projection. Or corruption!
Last edited by northernwater; Nov 13, 2017 @ 9:52am
the_panther Nov 13, 2017 @ 10:00am 
I believe it was patch 1.12.

Common Sense had just come out and it severly punished any nation outside of Europe. So, even though I had bought it, I turned it off in nearly every achievment run when I started with a nation outside Christian Europe. While CS is still very Euro-centric, it is much more balanced now.

But CS was a terrible DLC when it first came out and it marked the beginning of the pounding on Paradox about their DLC policy. It was also the first DLC that made playing many nations much worse with it enabled.

Prior to the Common Sense release in June 2015, the reviews on this game were overwhelmingly positive.
northernwater Nov 13, 2017 @ 10:09am 
I started after CS, but I always play with the latest DLC.
freestyler-rs Nov 13, 2017 @ 11:15am 
Originally posted by Equinox:
Hi there,

I'm currently trying a WC run with the Ottomans. While expansion works well and I'm doing fine in general, I'm having a terribly hard time managing my money. Got 3 loans already, and with the army slider down to 0% I'm making -8.5 ducats a month. Once corruption is back to 0 after I conquered new provinces and made them cores, I'm roughly breaking even.

I have an army limit of 90, but can't afford to support more than around 30k troops. Got no mercenaries and just a small fleet below the force limit.

I'm currently only surviving by being at war all the time and taking money from the enemies, but that doesn't really solve the problem of a broken economy.

I just don't know how to improve my income. With only two merchants, there isn't much I could do I guess. Being limited to 20 states doesn't help either.

I've completed influence ideas and am close to completing admin ideas.

Is there any display which shows which possible states would create the most benefit?
Does anybody have some tips about how to increase income?

The economy system in EUIV works best if you stack modifiers on your income. However as Ottomans with 30 divisions you should NEVER be in the negative even if it's a full mercenary force. If you're at -8.5 a month at 0% upkeep and while not paying down corruption, something went horribly wrong in your game. Look at your financial balance sheet and try to identify where the problem lies.

Do you pay 30 ducats for advisors? Fire them and get cheaper ones that pay for themselves (land maintenance, tax efficiency, trade efficiency!

Did you accidentally conquer a few colonies while not actually having colonists? Abandon them!

Paying 20 ducats for all the conquered forts? Delete or disable them! (careful though! active forts give army tradition and high army tradition prevents the janissary decadence later.)

And so on. If the problem is on the income side: Get economic and/or trade ideas. Many like the trade ideas, but I prefer economic for the ability to abuse gold mines and the free autonomy and land maintenance reduction.

Take a look at your estates. If they're unhappy they give you negative income modifiers.

If your go to solution for rebels is to increase autonomy - don't do it! especially not in your states. get quantity ideas and ♥♥♥♥ the rebels up. You're the ottomans. You'll be swimming in manpower soon anyways.


And regarding the display for states: it tells you the potential at the moment when you try to statify it. But you're best off if you just take a look at basetax and autonomy level of the provinces in the possible state. Everything else is secondary. Production income is inferior at the start and trade good production for your trade flow to constantinople should not be affected by the 75% autonomy from non-states. If you don't know how to maximize trade - "Reman's Paradox" did a pretty good tutorial video for that.
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Date Posted: Nov 13, 2017 @ 5:31am
Posts: 15