Forming Italy and Sardinia-Piedmont in HRE

[marat1793]

Why does forming Sardinia-Piedmont in the HRE make it leave the empire? Why SP and not Westphalia or Hannover and so on and so forth? I understand why for balance reasons, but it really doesn't make that much sense that you can't form SP without leaving while you can form Westphalia and stay. It doesn't really make 100% sense that Italy breaks out too, it should be a choice of the Emperor and the nation forming Italy, as the Kingdom of Italy de jure existed as a part of the HRE, and a unified italy would increase the emperor's authority (one united kingdom subject to the empor rather than 19 city-states vying for dominance).

[c00lizz]

All nation formation decisions, except for a few ones in the German region, causes you to leave the the HRE unless you are an Elector/Emperor.

I am guessing this is because almost all country formation decisions represent a duchy becoming a kingdom and there is only one king in the HRE. Hence the hilarious title of King IN Prussia, not King of Prussia.

[Loquitran]

But a kingdom is lower than a empire. Isn't the HRE an empire?

[c00lizz]

Originally posted by Loquitran:

But a kingdom is lower than a empire. Isn't the HRE an empire?

There is only one King in the HRE, that's Bohemia. Everyone else is a Prince except for the one guy that's elected Emperor and that, unlike most King titles, is not hereditary.

[Loquitran]

Originally posted by c00lizz:

Originally posted by Loquitran:

But a kingdom is lower than a empire. Isn't the HRE an empire?

There is only one King in the HRE, that's Bohemia. Everyone else is a Prince except for the one guy that's elected Emperor and that, unlike most King titles, is not hereditary.

So, even though the Holy Roman Empire have empire on it's name, it only become an empire after unifying it?

The fact that the leader of the HRE is called the emperor, is a little misleading regarding ranks.

[Jenki]

You need to be duchy to stay in empire and if you form nation that is kingdom than it removes you unless you are elcetor

[c00lizz]

Feudal ranks and titles were EXTREMELY complicated. Nobody was really ever just "King of something", the EUIV system of Duke/King/Emperor is very, very condensed. For good reason though, the real thing would be a pain to manage within the scope of the game.

In terms of the HRE you only have one King because there only existed one King title within the confines of the HRE so the King of Bohemia was sortof grandfathered in. There existed no "King of Austria" title for example. Then you add into the very, very complex diplomacy of the HRE where EVERYBODY, regardless of territory is a Prince.

And then you get the silliness of the Prince of Brandenburg successfully claiming the tile King of Prussia but because there is only one King in the HRE he has to be refered to as King IN Prussia.

Just to give you an example the title of Charles XII was God King of Sweden, the Goths and the Vends, Grand Prince of Finland, Duke of Scania, Estonia, Livonia and Karelia, Lord of Ingria, Duke of Bremen, Verden and Pomerania, Prince of Rügen and Lord of Wismar, and also Count Palatine by the Rhine, Duke in Bavaria, Count of Zweibrücken–Kleeburg, as well as Duke of Jülich, Cleve and Berg, Count of Veldenz, Spanheim and Ravensberg and Lord of Ravenstein.

The result of the Swedish Kings coming from German familes.