How big of an advantage is tech?

[Solitus]

First some background info: Most of my Paradox hours are in CK2 where tactics can be summed up as "Biggest Army Wins" Also, in EU4 I haven't played to 1700 yet (mostly fast, early campaigns so far) so I am not very familiar with how this would play out.

Current game: Teutonic Order, Baltic Crusader run.
Ideas: Quality, Trade, Religious
Force Limit: 45/60, mostly mercs.
Military Tech: 14
Year: 1576

I was happily eating Muscovy without issue, but they just got broken by Sunni Zealots, converting their country and now The Ottomans will protect them as Defender of the Faith

Muscovy:
Ideas: Trade, Diplomatic, Defensive
Force Limit: 9/33, 5 of which are mercs.
Military Tech: 12

Ottomans:
Ideas: Trade, Quantity, Innovative
Force Limit: 177/186
Military Tech: 12

Obviously I am scared of 177k troops. The Ottomans have taken almost all of Crimea and are currently allied with a Tunis that have a large chunk of northern Africa.

In 4 years I will finish the 20 year annexation of Novgorod. I have and independent Sweden as an ally, and just grabbed France but have no favors.

Is my tech advantage enough to win, or should I wait till I can pick up Quantity or Offensive or Mil Tech 15?

I need to beat up The Ottomans to take Ryazan as well, but I have never played far enough ahead to know if things will get better if I wait or if now is the time to strike before it gets worse.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Biiiiigggggggggg

[ඞ]

Wait unitl later in the game, around Mil tech 20. Once that mark is reached the Kebab loses its bite, as their late-game troops cant match up to European troops. But as of now, yes, back off. They WILL steam-roll you. Your best bet would to somehow start either a coalition war(against them, that is) or create a huge alliance bloc willing to help you fight. Also, your gonna need lots of forts and mercs as well.

[ඞ]

Also, Quality on Kebab? Damn, thats gonna hurt with the Roach Elites stackwiping your puny TO forces.

[Solitus]

Ok, I will just wait for now. I managed to join the HRE early on but then Austria went into a PU under Hungary, who rivaled me.

I ignored the Religious League Wars; and now the HRE is lead by a Protestant Bohemia and that is the official religion of the HRE.

I guess I can beat up on the Protestants and force convert them while I wait.

SO annoyed because I was set to absorb all of Muscovy without issue....damn you Sunni rebels.

[Solitus]

Originally posted by I'm not dead:

Also, Quality on Kebab? Damn, thats gonna hurt with the Roach Elites stackwiping your puny TO forces.

Typo on my part, they have Quantity, not Quality. You would still recommend waiting till Mil Tech 20?

[Slimane]

Originally posted by Solitus:

Originally posted by I'm not dead:

Also, Quality on Kebab? Damn, thats gonna hurt with the Roach Elites stackwiping your puny TO forces.

Typo on my part, they have Quantity, not Quality. You would still recommend waiting till Mil Tech 20?

Just wait for the next unit upgrade, those are usually the ones that give the bigger advantage. For example the one where you unlock gunpowder, it gives your infantry a massive increase to fire.

[mischa.zehnbauer]

Can you declare on a smaller ally and drag Russia in? Then Ottomans won't come to their help. Also, depending on the amount of Orthodox provinces they still have, it's pretty likely that they will face orthodox rebels sooner or later.

Technology is very important. Just take a quick look at all those "how can I have possibly lost this battle?"-threads here on steam. However, there are several things that modify troops.

As TO with filled Quality idea and 3 ideas group you have +10% disc, +20% infantery combat and +20% cav combat and +10% art combat. Tech advantage also gives you infantery fire and makes your artillery actually useful compared to that of your enemy. This is more than enough to wipe the floor with russia, even if you had less men then them.

However, Ottomans have +5% disc, +15% cav bonus from NIs, +5% moral from being defender of faith and most probably another +5% disc, +10% infantery combat from the jannissarie event. Also, if you take a look at http://www.eu4wiki.com/Land_units#Anatolian, you will notice that their level 12 infantery is better than yours and that they level 10 cav is still on par with your level 14 knights.

So, assuming that they do have the Jannisairies, your troops are roughly balanced, with a slight advantage in your favor, but their numerical advantage easily trumps that.

There are other factors that I didn't include. Most importantly army tradition, generals and advisors. Depending on the circumstances, your skill as a general and quite frankly, the amount of incompetency of the Ottoman AI you might still win the war.
Yet I would advise against it for now. Wait at least till 15, as it grants you better troops and a bonus to military tactics. Even if Ottos level up to 14 in that time, the difference between 14 and 15 is bigger than that between 12 and 14.

[Solitus]

Thank you for the info! That is exactly what I needed to know :)

Sadly Muscovy has no allies, and doesn't look likely to pick up some anytime soon, especially now that he's Sunni. Though I am going to have to fight Ottomans eventually to get Ryazan.

I don't mind waiting, especially since now I am out of convenient rival wars to keep power projection high and wait it out till my troops are better; I was just worried that if I waited too long I wouldn't ever be able to stop them.

Is it worth it to go for another military idea group first? And is combining Quality and Quantity a bad idea? I thought I read somewhere that if you combine those two you get events that are really bad.

[Solitus]

I have one relation slot open...and I own some of the Brandenburg cores.

Would it be insanity to release Brandenburg as a vassal and turn them into a march? Prussian ideas seem to be a good match for a March, but they won't ever be able to form Prussia since I am the TO.

Just looking to get as much force limit to kick kebab.

[Solitus]

This game has been so very strange. Castille is now Honduras, Nicaragua, and Panama; Granada still exists...but as the Cape of Good Hope and Southern African Plateau.

Hungary PU'd Austria and ate them, and most of the Italian peninsula.

For a long time the only colonizer in North America was Scotland; Norway has been kicked out of Scandanavia and now exists as Texas.

Alaska and California are Portugese colonies (and amazingly, it is Portugal, Leon, and Aragon who hold the Iberian peninsula)

Kongo, Burundi, and Kilwa dominated their respective blobs of Central Africa yet in 1725 not a single province between them has been colonized to the region remains fragmented.