Is There A Way To Prevent The War of The Roses As England?

[Bioniclex6]

I'm fairly new to this game, so there might be an obvious answer to this question that I just haven't seen. It is just so devastating, I have never been able to survive the war of the Roses, because even if I beat all the rebels and have all my territory, they never stop spawning! Even on the lowest difficulty all I can do is spam royal marriages and hope for the best. I feel like I am missing something. Either way, thanks!

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von gregoryk64:

That's the question. As England, you currently own Maine but are in violation of a treaty that was supposed to return it to France. Since France has a damned good point, if you as England refuse to give it up and they take up arms to recover what is rightfully theirs by treaty, who actually started the war as the agressor?

But Maine and Normandy rightfully belonged to King John "Softsword" and was echeated by France...

[Rooter]

Anyone who doesnt want France under a PU is either playing a different game style to most or is an idiot.

[somnia et musica]

Dude, you have to be really bad at EU4 for surrender of maine to go wrong.

[jpc1918]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TheOttomans27:

Dude, you have to be really bad at EU4 for surrender of maine to go wrong.

France can actually back down btw, and noobies won't realize they can call in their allies instead of a 1v French Alliance

[Shampagen]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von gregoryk64:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TFMbobcat:

But again, he didn't answer my question. Why hang on to Maine at all at the risk of war against a major power when there is imminent civil war on the horizon? As I said, it's one province, not the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ English throne.

Because it's the French throne, not the English throne. The French can't even claim your throne as England.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von jpc1918 FURRY:

France can actually back down btw, and noobies won't realize they can call in their allies instead of a 1v French Alliance

Portugal is a TERRIBLE ally agaisnt France since they ill chicken out 100% of the time... atlhoguh it's a great way to sever the alliance if you think you can (somehow) beat them in the colonization of the missipi, carribean, and newfoundland all at once and you don't need their help in Europe. So, unless you find someone else, it's 1vs French alliance.

[Shampagen]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tiberiansun371alexw:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von jpc1918 FURRY:

France can actually back down btw, and noobies won't realize they can call in their allies instead of a 1v French Alliance

Portugal is a TERRIBLE ally agaisnt France since they ill chicken out 100% of the time... atlhoguh it's a great way to sever the alliance if you think you can (somehow) beat them in the colonization of the missipi, carribean, and newfoundland all at once and you don't need their help in Europe. So, unless you find someone else, it's 1vs French alliance.

It's pretty easy to beat France as England.Just promise Castile land, vassalize Navarra, and keep Castile's participation as low as possible and it should be very easy to peace France out with your only problem being liberty desire, which is easily gotten rid of through improve relations.

[Shai-Hulud]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tiberiansun371alexw:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von jpc1918 FURRY:

France can actually back down btw, and noobies won't realize they can call in their allies instead of a 1v French Alliance

Portugal is a TERRIBLE ally agaisnt France since they ill chicken out 100% of the time... atlhoguh it's a great way to sever the alliance if you think you can (somehow) beat them in the colonization of the missipi, carribean, and newfoundland all at once and you don't need their help in Europe. So, unless you find someone else, it's 1vs French alliance.

Yeah...Castile...Aragon...Burgundy if the rival gods allow it.

At least 10 people have mentioned these nations as willing to join the war against France. Why do you keep saying it is going to be 1vFrance/French allies?

Portugal would never join that war anyways.

There are 3 (THREE) strong nations bordering France that will join the war in exchange for land.

As I have never been able to ally Burgundy as England, let's pretend Castile and Aragon (& Naples) are the only nations that will join. Restart until Aragon and Castile are not rivaled, and neither have you set as rival (doesn't take long).

You now surround France with your alliances, and the subsequent war is super easy. It is even easier without cossacks because you can call AUSTRIA in.

Let me repeat this. Getting the right allies to join your unification war against France is not hard.

If you have any foresight at all, the war itself is even easier than getting the alliances.

France is basically begging you to wipe their 16k stack in Paris, which leaves Castile & Aragon to deal with the smaller stack in the south.

Meanwhile you are already sieging Paris and France is down 16k manpower in the first month of the war.

Getting the PU on France is incredibly easy. Whether or not someone wants to do it is a separate matter.

By the way, I would avoid taking out loans. Debase instead. If you have loans taken out when your war with France is over (they are now your slaves) - you will get a negative "union only in name" modifier. I believe it is -20 and will stack up to -100. This will mess up their somewhat already precarious liberty desire.

[Shampagen]

Just to show how worth it getting France in a PU is, here's a screenshot of me steamrolling of the world. All dark red things are mine or my vassal's.


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=877007549

EDIT: I am making 101 ducats a month and am up to my merc limit in infantry, with every infantry unit in my army being a merc. Having France makes England an absolute powerhouse in every aspect.

[Flaming Lunatic]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von gregoryk64:

The War of the Roses event is tied directly to the fact that Henry VII is a lousy king with A/D/M stats of 0/0/0, there is no legitimate heir and realm stability is 0. If you look at the tooltip on the looming disaster icon at the top of the screen it tells you how much each of these factors contributes to how quickly the War of the Roses happens.

It can be prevented or at least slowed down by increasing your stbility ASAP. It's also a big help if you gat the event for Marie of Anjou to assume the crown. If that happens, let her. This wil get your ruler stats up to where they no longer contribute to the countdown clock and may buy you some time to produce a legitimate heir to the throne.

But if the war event continues to come closer, the best thing to do is prepare for it. Park your forces on either Lancaster or York. Do not start any agreesive moves toward provinces in Ireland no matter how tempting that may be. Very early you are going to get an event to surrender Maine to France. Do it. There's no way you're going to beat France at that point in the game anyway, nevermind a looming civil war. If you get an event regarding the rise of the Lollard heresy, concede to their demand. It might piss off the pope, but that better than having high unrest in six provinces and you find yourself beating back Lollard zealots as well as the side oyu didn't back in the Lancaster/York feud.

If you do all that and the War of the Roses still fires, at least you'll have a fighting chance of winning. At least it worked for me in my current game as England, although the war itself took a while as rebels kept popping up over the course of a few years. But it is winnable.

And if you do win, be sure to take the option to make Henry Tudor your heir, unless you want to cause more problems for yourself.

I tried your method. War of the Roses fired and my entire 37'000 man army was parked on York ready to crush the rebellion that started in Kent....Da fuq? Why did 26'000 York rebels spawn in Kent?! Anyways I eventually wipe out the various rebels armies draining my manpower and money.

Then, He, appeared. Henry Tudor on a white horse to save the day like an angelic saint. And then for the next decade Henry Tudor waited patiently for the Henry the VI to get off the throne while England slowly recovered and made close ties to Scotland, Portugal, Austria and the Irelands.

Then a Black Day, Henry Tudor, heir to the throne, died in a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ RANDOM EVENT!!

My marriage alliance with Scotland instantly dissolved along with my military alliance with them and then they allied with FRANCE! The carefully managed situation in Ireland exploded into bloody war between English and Scottish supporters and an alliance of France, Scotland, Holland, Brittany and Burgundy attacked for Normandie, Calais, Bordeuax and Northumbria.

But don't worry our new heir with 1/1/0 stats is only 16 years from taking the throne. Meanwhile Henry the VI can bumble along and destroy our alliance with the Irelands, cause stability lose, prestige loss, Papal Influence loss and then get excommunicated by a Fench Pope and WHY WON"T YOU ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ DIE ALREADY!?! YOUR IRISH WIFE HAS 3/4/2 STATS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!! HOW THE HELL DID YOU SURVIVE A 1'000 MAN STACK WIPE!?!

[jpc1918]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tiberiansun371alexw:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von jpc1918 FURRY:

France can actually back down btw, and noobies won't realize they can call in their allies instead of a 1v French Alliance

Portugal is a TERRIBLE ally agaisnt France since they ill chicken out 100% of the time... atlhoguh it's a great way to sever the alliance if you think you can (somehow) beat them in the colonization of the missipi, carribean, and newfoundland all at once and you don't need their help in Europe. So, unless you find someone else, it's 1vs French alliance.

Getting Austria isn't that hard man, Burgundy is RNG but a good ally and Either Aragon or Castille are good options
Only problem would be lobotimized AI (I've had it happen France just loses their mind building tiny armies while having the economy to build many more while being loyal)
OH and for the love of god DON'T accept the Mary De Anjou event! It will cancel your PU
Also there's an event to force a PU on Scotland too (or was it a mission like the Austrian one over Bohemia and Hungary, check the wiki mate)

Also a pro tip if you ever decide to go Spain
Iberian Wedding (obviously) and after the 1650s you will get a PU over portugal by even if they get a Regency or no heir (long MTTH (Mean Time To Happen)) via event making collonization a joke

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Aragon isn't a great ally against France. Castile, Burgandy, and Austria are pretty good. Castile AI sometimes borks when it's doing the reconquista at the same time you war with France and puts 70% of its forces in a stack that walks back and forth, but short of that case

What do you mean by decide to go Spain? I think the Original Post was about England.

Or were you advising him (Bioniclex6) what to do if he decided to try spain out?

[ColdWonder]

Heh i like some of the replies regarding fighting the war on Maine: "Restart untill you get the perfect diplomatic situation". If your going to use save/reload to bruteforce your way through the game its nowonder you play so fearlessly :) Some of us play ironman though.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pile_O_Gunz:

Heh i like some of the replies regarding fighting the war on Maine: "Restart untill you get the perfect diplomatic situation". If your going to use save/reload to bruteforce your way through the game its nowonder you play so fearlessly :) Some of us play ironman though.

Yeah, that miht be challenging but no fun

[Shai-Hulud]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pile_O_Gunz:

Heh i like some of the replies regarding fighting the war on Maine: "Restart untill you get the perfect diplomatic situation". If your going to use save/reload to bruteforce your way through the game its nowonder you play so fearlessly :) Some of us play ironman though.

Starting a game as England and seeing that you have all potential allies vs France rivaling you - immediately restarting that game for a more ideal rival scenario - is just smart. If you start a game and need Castile as an ally to accomplish what you want to do, why not restart once, maybe twice until they aren't rivaling you? I would hardly call that "restarting until you get the perfect diplomatic situation." It is one nation, who very often does not rival you.

The only reason you would restart a game based on the (random) rival situation is if you are playing ironman. You aren't special because your moral compass tells you its not ok to spend a couple minutes restarting your game (that you might spend days to weeks playing) to get advantageous rivalries - before you ever even unpaused it.

Castile is about as likely to rival you as not. So if you are planning an early war with France, why wouldn't you want them to not rival you? It is not like it is some 10% chance that you need to sit there for 30 minutes to get right.

Basically, you are wrong and restarting an Ironman run before you ever unpause it is not "bruteforcing".