Is There A Way To Prevent The War of The Roses As England?

[Bioniclex6]

I'm fairly new to this game, so there might be an obvious answer to this question that I just haven't seen. It is just so devastating, I have never been able to survive the war of the Roses, because even if I beat all the rebels and have all my territory, they never stop spawning! Even on the lowest difficulty all I can do is spam royal marriages and hope for the best. I feel like I am missing something. Either way, thanks!

[gregoryk64]

The War of the Roses event is tied directly to the fact that Henry VII is a lousy king with A/D/M stats of 0/0/0, there is no legitimate heir and realm stability is 0. If you look at the tooltip on the looming disaster icon at the top of the screen it tells you how much each of these factors contributes to how quickly the War of the Roses happens.

It can be prevented or at least slowed down by increasing your stbility ASAP. It's also a big help if you gat the event for Marie of Anjou to assume the crown. If that happens, let her. This wil get your ruler stats up to where they no longer contribute to the countdown clock and may buy you some time to produce a legitimate heir to the throne.

But if the war event continues to come closer, the best thing to do is prepare for it. Park your forces on either Lancaster or York. Do not start any agreesive moves toward provinces in Ireland no matter how tempting that may be. Very early you are going to get an event to surrender Maine to France. Do it. There's no way you're going to beat France at that point in the game anyway, nevermind a looming civil war. If you get an event regarding the rise of the Lollard heresy, concede to their demand. It might piss off the pope, but that better than having high unrest in six provinces and you find yourself beating back Lollard zealots as well as the side oyu didn't back in the Lancaster/York feud.

If you do all that and the War of the Roses still fires, at least you'll have a fighting chance of winning. At least it worked for me in my current game as England, although the war itself took a while as rebels kept popping up over the course of a few years. But it is winnable.

And if you do win, be sure to take the option to make Henry Tudor your heir, unless you want to cause more problems for yourself.

[somnia et musica]

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

The War of the Roses event is tied directly to the fact that Henry VII is a lousy king with A/D/M stats of 0/0/0, there is no legitimate heir and realm stability is 0. If you look at the tooltip on the looming disaster icon at the top of the screen it tells you how much each of these factors contributes to how quickly the War of the Roses happens.

It can be prevented or at least slowed down by increasing your stbility ASAP. It's also a big help if you gat the event for Marie of Anjou to assume the crown. If that happens, let her. This wil get your ruler stats up to where they no longer contribute to the countdown clock and may buy you some time to produce a legitimate heir to the throne.

But if the war event continues to come closer, the best thing to do is prepare for it. Park your forces on either Lancaster or York. Do not start any agreesive moves toward provinces in Ireland no matter how tempting that may be. Very early you are going to get an event to surrender Maine to France. Do it. There's no way you're going to beat France at that point in the game anyway, nevermind a looming civil war. If you get an event regarding the rise of the Lollard heresy, concede to their demand. It might piss off the pope, but that better than having high unrest in six provinces and you find yourself beating back Lollard zealots as well as the side oyu didn't back in the Lancaster/York feud.

If you do all that and the War of the Roses still fires, at least you'll have a fighting chance of winning. At least it worked for me in my current game as England, although the war itself took a while as rebels kept popping up over the course of a few years. But it is winnable.

And if you do win, be sure to take the option to make Henry Tudor your heir, unless you want to cause more problems for yourself.

NEVER give up Maine to France.
I suggest you dont follow all of his advice, except for the WotR one.
You're a big ass country, and you'd better off staying CATHOLIC, because you can have more cardinal and doesn't care about HRE, so, you should NOT piss off the pope, my advice on WotR is getting Marie de Anjou, avoiding WotR at ALL costs, allying Austria, Burgundy and Castile/Aragon or whoever rivaled France, let your allies do the job on the war, fight the lollards, and at the end of the war give territory to Burgundy and Austria if you promised and take Paris for yourself, demand them to revoke guarantee Scotland, then attack them.



If you do all correct, you will rekt France, Scotland, Ireland, and Austria will be crippled, as Burgundy, or whoever u allied.

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by TheOttomans27:

NEVER give up Maine to France.

Good lord, why? What is the point in fighting a war that early in the game against a superior enemy when you don't yet have the income or manpower to effectively replenish your forces when you know there's a high probability if a protracted civil war coming soon?

It's one province. It's not like you're giving them the throne of England.

[somnia et musica]

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

Originally posted by TheOttomans27:

NEVER give up Maine to France.

Good lord, why? What is the point in fighting a war that early in the game against a superior enemy when you don't yet have the income or manpower to effectively replenish your forces when you know there's a high probability if a protracted civil war coming soon?

It's one province. It's not like you're giving them the throne of England.

Ally everyone who rivals France, stay in english isles, win the war.

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by TheOttomans27:

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

Good lord, why? What is the point in fighting a war that early in the game against a superior enemy when you don't yet have the income or manpower to effectively replenish your forces when you know there's a high probability if a protracted civil war coming soon?

It's one province. It's not like you're giving them the throne of England.

Ally everyone who rivals France, stay in english isles, win the war.

That doesn't answer my question.

[[TFM]bobcat]

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

Originally posted by TheOttomans27:

Ally everyone who rivals France, stay in english isles, win the war.

That doesn't answer my question.

Although I wouldnt necessarily take his approach his logic is not hard to follow dude. If you wont have to do much of the fighting anyway, what need is there to avoid war

[tiberiansun371alexw]

If you win the Hundred Years' war, does that stop the countdown? Does his stats improve on winning? Given the Hosue of Lancaster only lost the War of the Roses because of loss bof prestige after losing Aquataine, I would imagine it should.

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by TFMbobcat:

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

That doesn't answer my question.

Although I wouldnt necessarily take his approach his logic is not hard to follow dude. If you wont have to do much of the fighting anyway, what need is there to avoid war

Becuase it doesn't always play out as he describes. The one time I did refuse to surrender Maine I had been unable to secure royal marriages or alliances with any of France's rivals. The only alliances I could secure that were worth a damn from a military standpoint were Brittany and Portugal. When I refused to surrender Maine they left my ass handing in the breeze and the French handed it back to me. And even if you do have allies and you decide to sit it out in England, there's nothing preventing the French from coming across the Channel and you still have to engage. Granted, the force will probably be small and can be beaten, but you will still suffer losses.

But again, he didn't answer my question. Why hang on to Maine at all at the risk of war against a major power when there is imminent civil war on the horizon? As I said, it's one province, not the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ English throne.

And in my current game playing as England, I used the strategy exactly as I described above. Pacified the Lollards, surrendered Maine, vassalized Ulster (although that was my only move into Ireland at that time) and avoided armed conflict. Won the War of the Roses and made Henry Tudor my heir. The year is now 1620. Over the course of that timespan I annexed Castile through a personal union, and took all of Ireland and Scotland. I have retained control of Normandy, Calais and Bordeaux and have so far not been challenged for them. I expanded into the Caribbean and kicked out the Portugese when they started to establish a foothold there and encroach on my interests. I now control most of the Caribbean and about half of Chesapeake Bay along with a few other colonial holdings in Seville, Safi and the Ivory coast I got when I annexed Castile and really couldn't care less about. In fact, the only concession I've made in the whole game was Maine, and the comment by TheOttomans27 criticizes me for it.

I gave up one province without a fight and stayed non-agressive until the War of the Roses was settled. That led to me creating Great Britain, gaining most of the Iberian peninsula, and controlling a good portion of the most lucrative colonial territories. Seems to me that Maine was a small price to pay.

Or as Henry II Plantagenet said in THE LION IN WINTER, "That, to my old eyes, boy, is winning!"

[erneiz]

You are not just giving up 1 province. You are giving up a chance to gain a Personal Union with France before the year 1500.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Originally posted by erneiz:

You are not just giving up 1 province. You are giving up a chance to gain a Personal Union with France before the year 1500.

It's pretty much unwinable if the War of the Roses break out beofre you win...

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by erneiz:

You are not just giving up 1 province. You are giving up a chance to gain a Personal Union with France before the year 1500.

With all due respect (and I do not mean sarcastically, it is genuine), ♥♥♥♥ the personal union with France. I haven't found it necessary since I have no interest in gaining any additional French territory and as long as I can maintain a cold war rivalry with them I'm perfectly happy.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

With all due respect (and I do not mean sarcastically, it is genuine), ♥♥♥♥ the personal union with France. I haven't found it necessary since I have no interest in gaining any additional French territory and as long as I can maintain a cold war rivalry with them I'm perfectly happy.

How do you keep your highly devloped Norman lands then?

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by tiberiansun371alexw:

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

With all due respect (and I do not mean sarcastically, it is genuine), ♥♥♥♥ the personal union with France. I haven't found it necessary since I have no interest in gaining any additional French territory and as long as I can maintain a cold war rivalry with them I'm perfectly happy.

How do you keep your highly devloped Norman lands then?

In my current game France has been a rival, but other than fabricating the occasional claim they have not declared war. I've had Normandy, Calais and Bordeaux since the beginning and never been challenged for it. I've just tried to maintain a balance of power. I've never attempted to gain any French territory. It probably also helps that right now I have alliances with Brittany, Burgundy, Austria and Brandenburg. Spain is not an issue since I annexed Castille through a personal union which gave me control of most of the Iberian peninsula. There's no conflict with our coloinal interests since I have concentrated on the Caribbean and North America and they have concentrated on Brazil. Also, on the world power scale, they are two slots behind me. I'm #3 behind the Ottomans and Russia, they are number 5. So it seems I have a good agreement with France. We hate each other, but they don't ♥♥♥♥ with me, I don't ♥♥♥♥ with them.

But I'm interested to see what happens now since France just gained papal control and had me excommunicated.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Ooohhh, cool. Burgandy is a strong ally and you managed to keep Normany, Calais, and Bordeaux. I personally would only stick with 3 allies. Unless maybe you have a Lancaster on the Brittannian throne and your allliance was jsut a way to get that marriage?

[Holm]

If i remember correctly, the war with france is putting England on the "offensive" side of the war, this means that you will be fighting all Frances allies, and most likely not be able to get your allies into the war. That is atleast, what ive noticed in my recent games.