Does Capitalism Have any Relations to EUIV?

[Patrick Star Fan]

I've been told the Peasant's Republic resembles Socialism, which I agree with (although Marx was two when EUIV ends). Anyway, is Capitalism ever implemented? Adam Smith was around during EUIV time.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

No

[of Anwyl]

Originally posted by King Carl of Luigiland:

I've been told the Peasant's Republic resembles Socialism, which I agree with (although Marx was two when EUIV ends). Anyway, is Capitalism ever implemented? Adam Smith was around during EUIV time.

Economically speaking I would assume it stays mostly mercantilistic in Europe, and the rest of the world does whatever. The last institution is the enlightenment, not an economic one so I don't think they really touch on it. Victoria II is probably better for that. :D

[Lily]

The french revolution was largely bourgeois, so if you're looking for a specifically capitalistic government type, I'd say the revolutionary republic.

[tony.ajl69]

Nope, only fascism

[Darreningym]

Capitalism as an economic system is sort of enshrined in the trade node /city/republic system. But as a economic/political system it doesn't exist at that time. But if it did you wouldn't be able to play the game like you can now. Capitalist societies are more interested in selling things to their enemies than taking them over.

[Ranger.Danger]

If you want to play a game that revolves around capitalism business and trade i would also reccomend vicky 2

[Damedius]

You do realize that Socialism isn't a new idea? Plato wrote about and advocated for Socialism as far back as 400 B.C. He was like most socialists, he believed it would work if only he was King(the leader).

[Ficelle]

You will very rarelly find capitalism in any startegy game.

If anything, they almost all use the communist way...
The nation or leader or whetever is the only one choosing what to build, where, when and it only benefits the nation, no private sector at all...nothing capitalist there.

Vicky 2 is one of the only game with private sectors differenciated from the nation and minding about their own business.
Really great game, a bit outdated, i really hope they make a Vicky 3.

[Lily]

Originally posted by Damedius:

You do realize that Socialism isn't a new idea? Plato wrote about and advocated for Socialism as far back as 400 B.C. He was like most socialists, he believed it would work if only he was King(the leader).

Socialism denotes a classless society where the workers themselves, rather than an elite owning class like the capitalist bourgeoisie or the feudal aristocracy, own and control the means of production. Plato's Republic was something else entirely.

Now, communist social organization is nothing new - anthropology seems to indicate that the default human distributive system is a gift economy - but precisely because it's simply our default economic mode, there's a difference between a modern thinker positing a society explicitly founded on a rejection of class hierarchy, and a primitve one that merely inherited communistic features, like the commons of the peasants, from its distant past.

[Damedius]

Originally posted by Bel Riose:

Originally posted by Damedius:

You do realize that Socialism isn't a new idea? Plato wrote about and advocated for Socialism as far back as 400 B.C. He was like most socialists, he believed it would work if only he was King(the leader).

Socialism denotes a classless society where the workers themselves, rather than an elite owning class like the capitalist bourgeoisie or the feudal aristocracy, own and control the means of production. Plato's Republic was something else entirely.

Now, communist social organization is nothing new - anthropology seems to indicate that the default human distributive system is a gift economy - but precisely because it's simply our default economic mode, there's a difference between a modern thinker positing a society explicitly founded on a rejection of class hierarchy, and a primitve one that merely inherited communistic features, like the commons of the peasants, from its distant past.

Is it really that different? Can you really have a classless society?

Every instance of Communism/Socialism results in at least two classes of people. The workers and bureaucrats(managerial class). So in essence it is Plato's Republic

[Lily]

Originally posted by Damedius:

Is it really that different? Can you really have a classless society?

Every instance of Communism/Socialism results in at least two classes of people. The workers and bureaucrats(managerial class). So in essence it is Plato's Republic

Well, every instance of state socialism does, yeah, and yeah, you can't have a classless society when some people have power over others. But you could just as well say that Plato's Republic is like feudalism, which also divides people into working (peasants) and controlling (aristocracy) classes; that similarity doesn't mean that Plato invented feudalism. It's a bit more complicated than that.

[of Anwyl]

Originally posted by Bel Riose:

Originally posted by Damedius:

Is it really that different? Can you really have a classless society?

Every instance of Communism/Socialism results in at least two classes of people. The workers and bureaucrats(managerial class). So in essence it is Plato's Republic

Well, every instance of state socialism does, yeah, and yeah, you can't have a classless society when some people have power over others. But you could just as well say that Plato's Republic is like feudalism, which also divides people into working (peasants) and controlling (aristocracy) classes; that similarity doesn't mean that Plato invented feudalism. It's a bit more complicated than that.

Well there's a reason its referred to as a plutocratic republican system, and the better form of oligarchy.

[mischa.zehnbauer]

Originally posted by King Carl of Luigiland:

I've been told the Peasant's Republic resembles Socialism, which I agree with.

Dithmarschen, the only peasant republic in the game, was never de jure free, although it's overlords usually didn't care much about it. More importantly, however, it simply had a different ruling class - wealthy peasants intead of nobles - but was certainly not a "classless society". Also it was small as f*** ^^


EUs economical sphere is a heavily simplified state budget. There is no private economy, no question of ownership of capital, be it money, land or production tools, that goes beyond the concept of regional autonomy. Mercantilism btw is also just another number that has nothing to do with the real concept behind the term.

Considering politics, the situation can't be realy captured in terms of political theory, as the real ruler isn't the guy on the throne, but ultimatively the player behind the fourth wall. Therefore, it goes beyond even concepts of a single ruler like (pre-platonian) tyrannis, absolute monarchy, totalitarian dictatorship etc.

But even if we stick to ingame values and try to ignore the quasi-omnipotent presence of the player as much as we can, EU's countries are totalitarian regimes with a variety of different labels attached to them.


Vicky 2 is indeed better in that regard, although it mostly feigns complexity. There is not even a real system of supply and demand implemented. If you want that in a historical setting, go for business simulations like the Patrician series, Guild series or Port royal.

[Patrick Star Fan]

Doesn't it go like this?
CK2: 769-1453
EU4: 1444-1821
V2: 1836-1936
HOI4: 1936-1948

V2 was also a 1940s rocket used by the Germans...

[runequester]

Wealth of nations wasn't written until a few years before the end of the game.