Ottomans in war, why? Noob question.

[Starkwolf]

So, I was playing as Venice and in the following situation I have no idea why the Ottomans joined this war to defend Milan. I will try and provide as much context as possible:

I had recently won a war against Hungary, humiliated them, and took one province that I had a claim on and one that I didn't.

My diplomatic reputation was lowered from annexing Corfu. Naxos was in the process of being annexed.

Milan had just lost a war against Genoa, and lost territory and most of their allies, with the only remaining ally being Bohemia.

Bohemia was currently involved in a war against Hungary (which I had diplomatically isolated after my previous war). Bohemia was allied to the Ottomans.

The Ottomans had not given me a warning, nor formed a coalition against me.

A crusade had been called against the Ottomans, with the French (my allies) being the papal controller a while back, and was still in effect.

Bohemia did answer the call to war against me.

I have no idea how they automatically entered the war on the side of Milan. Probably was in the notification, but I accidentally cancelled out of it too soon.

[erneiz]

You declared war on Milan and made Bohemia a co-beligerent?

[Odd420]

if you have a certain DLC then the Ottomans (any one of the great powers for that matter) can join in a conflict just because. If France is an ally to you (they should be a great power which would be the reason that the Ottos joined in. It could be that you unknowingly made Bohemia a co-beligerent which would call the Ottomans into the war. The Ottos could have been garaunteeing the independence of Milan which would call them in, same with if you have been warned the Ottos would join.

[drcox321]

probably not very likely but is bohemia the emperor and is the date before 1490? If so they would be cobeligerent because you attacked into the HRE and they could call thier allies likely including the ottomans.

[Rooter]

Great powers will only join in other great power wars if the great powers involved are uneven between sides.

[Starkwolf]

Originally posted by Odd420:

if you have a certain DLC then the Ottomans (any one of the great powers for that matter) can join in a conflict just because. If France is an ally to you (they should be a great power which would be the reason that the Ottos joined in. It could be that you unknowingly made Bohemia a co-beligerent which would call the Ottomans into the war. The Ottos could have been garaunteeing the independence of Milan which would call them in, same with if you have been warned the Ottos would join.

I knowingly made Bohemia a co-belligerant, but I figured they would be distracted in their war against Hungary (a presumption which turned out to be correct) and never diverted any forces my way. Hungary kept them busy.

As far as I can tell, the Ottomans were not guaranteeing their independence, though I forgot to check. I can still check now.

But yeah, sounds like it is the powers thing. I do have most of the DLC.

@drcox321: Pretty sure that Bohemia was not the emperor: Austria still was.


Though if what Rooster says is true, then it still doesn't work, as it was already a risky decision on my part: gambling that Bohemia would not be able to send forces. Because of my previous war, I could not call France, Poland, or Castile (all of which were my allies, and I was above my alliance limit, I just didn't care because I was raking in the $$$ and made up for it with +2 advisors in everything, with a full army and +2.0 /month to spare).




However, on the subject of the great powers: I might have unwittingly qualified Venice as a great power. I was ranked pretty high in score. Certainly top 8. 5 or 6 I think. That might have pro'ked the Ottomans to enter if I was technically a great power. If that were true, then it would be a situation of a major power declaring war on a country that was not a major power, inviting the Ottomans to join.

[AllGrainGamer]

Originally posted by starkwolf:

I knowingly made Bohemia a co-belligerant

Originally posted by starkwolf:

Bohemia was allied to the Ottomans.

Making someone a cobelligerent allows them to call in their allies. No great power shenanigans were in play. Simple as that. Next time you plan to cobelligerent someone make sure you check their allies so you don't get caught with a nasty surprise.

[Starkwolf]

Originally posted by AllGrainGamer:

Originally posted by starkwolf:

I knowingly made Bohemia a co-belligerant

Originally posted by starkwolf:

Bohemia was allied to the Ottomans.

Making someone a cobelligerent allows them to call in their allies. No great power shenanigans were in play. Simple as that. Next time you plan to cobelligerent someone make sure you check their allies so you don't get caught with a nasty surprise.

Really? But it doesn't allow the player to do it? Maybe I have just been too reliant on popups. I was under the impression that cobelligerants could not call in their allies, as I had never had that happen before. I'm going to start using the diplomacy menu more than I already do.


Good to know. Makes sense, but having never seen it happen before I was under the impression that it just isn't allowed. A bug in the old versions? Perhaps a new feature?

I mean, vassals and such of course I have seen. Just not regular allies.

[drcox321]

When you make someone as cobelligerent it is as if you are declaring war on them directly. The AI will almost always honor a defensive call so if you havent seen it at this point then you are either insanely lucky or I guess it could have been a bug (though I have never seen or heard of it before) It is not a new feature.

[Starkwolf]

Originally posted by drcox321:

When you make someone as cobelligerent it is as if you are declaring war on them directly. The AI will almost always honor a defensive call so if you havent seen it at this point then you are either insanely lucky or I guess it could have been a bug (though I have never seen or heard of it before) It is not a new feature.

Okay. Strange. Probably a combination of the fact that I don't play often, with the fact that when I do play I usually have a more peaceful approach, then combined again with the fact that when I do actually declare war, I declare it on the big guy directly (thus maybe the little guys don't have anyone left that is worth calling in)? Still, I'd think I would have seen that happen.

It also might be that in my other games I have ever played before (where I understood hardly any of what was going on), I was playing as Korea, the Huron, and the Fox tribe. In all cases, there aren't a lot of other factions around that directly threaten you. Could have happened as Korea, but I didn't notice because after the Ming split up all the different factions are, at first, very weak anyway. At least, compared the tribe that I helped to take all of Manchuria.

As the Fox I was much more aggressive, but factions are much more spread out.



Wait... come to think of it, not only did it used to happen, I used to plan for it! I don't know why I misremembered that. I have a tendency to remember things wrong. How I could be so sure of remembering things opposite from what is even conventional I am not sure. Perhaps I was thinking of a different game where they had some strange mechanic like that where co-belligerents couldn't call in allies. I remember I was pretty frustrated too, but maybe that was a different game altogether and I remembered it as EU4.

[Jorde]

Originally posted by starkwolf:

I knowingly made Bohemia a co-belligerant, but I figured they would be distracted in their war against Hungary (a presumption which turned out to be correct) and never diverted any forces my way. Hungary kept them busy.

As far as I can tell, the Ottomans were not guaranteeing their independence, though I forgot to check. I can still check now.

But yeah, sounds like it is the powers thing. I do have most of the DLC.

@drcox321: Pretty sure that Bohemia was not the emperor: Austria still was.

Though if what Rooster says is true, then it still doesn't work, as it was already a risky decision on my part: gambling that Bohemia would not be able to send forces. Because of my previous war, I could not call France, Poland, or Castile (all of which were my allies, and I was above my alliance limit, I just didn't care because I was raking in the $$$ and made up for it with +2 advisors in everything, with a full army and +2.0 /month to spare).

However, on the subject of the great powers: I might have unwittingly qualified Venice as a great power. I was ranked pretty high in score. Certainly top 8. 5 or 6 I think. That might have pro'ked the Ottomans to enter if I was technically a great power. If that were true, then it would be a situation of a major power declaring war on a country that was not a major power, inviting the Ottomans to join.

Making a nation a co-beliggerent lets them call in their allies. Bohemia is allied to Ottomans. They had a defensive call to arms.