On the Topic of Including a Map

[Memes'nt've'd't]

I understand a lot of people want a map, and believe me, I understand, but is there really no consideration that maybe not having a map has it's appeal? (perhaps hyperbolic framing, but I've seen people wanting it, and I like to play devil's advocate)
If I wouldn't want Outerwilds to solve itself, I wouldn't want Pseudoregalia to either. I'm ofc not saying there shouldn't be an accessibility option if the dev thinks it'd be good, or just straight up having a map of the whole game, it's their game, but I think I'd jive better with A: Using in-game art to denote direction to the player (statues, signs, textures), or B: Letting the map slowly fill itself in and/or being barebones.

Game is a maze, so it needs something, but there's something nice about getting lost. Ofc you want to balance that with frustration for the end-user, but at the end of the day, a maze is fun in it's own right. Best to accentuate the strengths. The game isn't too big once you do learn it that a map is needed, and I think it takes you in enough unique directions that it doesn't have you looping back too much besides Castle Sansa.

Just my thoughts.
Honestly, adding one is fine, and I've sure gotten lost and redoubled areas as I'm learning the map, but depending how a map is implemented, Idk if I'd prefer it *personally*.
I only make this topic to put forward the concept in terms of game design.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

The map is already implemented in the beta. You can opt in with the code betabetabeta and see how it works. You can get it as an optional upgrade soon after leaving the tutorial dungeon section. The map only shows the outlines of rooms and connecting doorways, as well as what zone an exit leads to. It also only shows the rooms you’ve entered, you have to explore to fill it, just like most other metroidvanias.

[Zepondrax]

How do we opt in? sorry

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

The map is already implemented in the beta. You can opt in with the code betabetabeta and see how it works. You can get it as an optional upgrade soon after leaving the tutorial dungeon section. The map only shows the outlines of rooms and connecting doorways, as well as what zone an exit leads to. It also only shows the rooms you’ve entered, you have to explore to fill it, just like most other metroidvanias.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Zepondrax:

How do we opt in? sorry

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

The map is already implemented in the beta. You can opt in with the code betabetabeta and see how it works. You can get it as an optional upgrade soon after leaving the tutorial dungeon section. The map only shows the outlines of rooms and connecting doorways, as well as what zone an exit leads to. It also only shows the rooms you’ve entered, you have to explore to fill it, just like most other metroidvanias.

You right-click on the game in the Library page. Go to Properties, then Betas, then type betabetabeta into the code box. Then on this same window you can switch to the beta version of the game. It will update the game.

[Zepondrax]

Thanks I will try it

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by Zepondrax:

How do we opt in? sorry

You right-click on the game in the Library page. Go to Properties, then Betas, then type betabetabeta into the code box. Then on this same window you can switch to the beta version of the game. It will update the game.

[Zepondrax]

I found the map Yay. I was a bit confused at the start I was expecting to see a character marking on the map like an X to show where you are, but then i figured it out the green rooms is the room you are in and the blue rooms are the explored rooms

[robbingdog]

Agreed with OP. A map would really remove the tension of exploring. Sometimes you end up back where you started which is frustrating yes, but that makes it more gratifying when you find your way or stumble upon something new, and a map totally removes that push and pull. Adding a map is a step towards the kind of cookie cutter open world games that have map markers with objectives that you follow until you get 100% completion. Kind of a reach I know but, my point is that making games easier to understand doesn't always make them more fun.

An accessibility option would be fine since I know some people really struggle without the map. But I hope they don't make the map the default because then the majority of players will not experience the game the same way I did, and I don't think it would be a positive change for everyone, though it might be better for some people and it's fine if they could choose to turn it on from a menu.

[WonderSparks]

Originally posted by robbingdog:

An accessibility option would be fine since I know some people really struggle without the map. But I hope they don't make the map the default because then the majority of players will not experience the game the same way I did, and I don't think it would be a positive change for everyone, though it might be better for some people and it's fine if they could choose to turn it on from a menu.

Yeah, I'm in that camp, myself; having the map as an accessibility option rather than just a thing that's there whether you want it or not would definitely be preferred.
If the game were as big as something like Super Metroid, then yeah I think I'd want a map at all times (at least until I speedrun the game so many times I have the entire map memorized lmao), but since Castle Sansa and its various zones are honestly pretty small by comparison...

But that's just how I feel. I'd still thoroughly enjoy the game either way~

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by robbingdog:

Agreed with OP. A map would really remove the tension of exploring. Sometimes you end up back where you started which is frustrating yes, but that makes it more gratifying when you find your way or stumble upon something new, and a map totally removes that push and pull. Adding a map is a step towards the kind of cookie cutter open world games that have map markers with objectives that you follow until you get 100% completion. Kind of a reach I know but, my point is that making games easier to understand doesn't always make them more fun.

An accessibility option would be fine since I know some people really struggle without the map. But I hope they don't make the map the default because then the majority of players will not experience the game the same way I did, and I don't think it would be a positive change for everyone, though it might be better for some people and it's fine if they could choose to turn it on from a menu.

The map is an optional pick up.

It also only shows the outlines of rooms explored, which room you are in, how the rooms are connected, and what subareas exits lead to if you’ve gone through them.

[KC99]

i bought the game the moment i heard it had no map, because my jaw dropped and i wanted to try it and i found i sucked but then i beat it and it was magical,

but the way that dude described the map and noting that as long as its n optiona;l pickup i think we good

[Zepondrax]

I am taking my way not speedunning so 3.5 hours so far although I do have 4 more gold keys to find. Theres so many areas I cant get to, either because their too high up, like castle Sansa I think where they have the purple swirls and there is a ledge and another higher up ledge I cant get to

Originally posted by KC99:

i bought the game the moment i heard it had no map, because my jaw dropped and i wanted to try it and i found i sucked but then i beat it and it was magical,

but the way that dude described the map and noting that as long as its n optiona;l pickup i think we good

[robbingdog]

I haven't played a game with a feature like an optional pickup which you choose to use or not, though I've heard about games like Elden Ring and FF16 having items like that, so I believe it's becoming relatively standard.

I guess it's a fine way to handle it, though I would feel weird about having a helpful item and choosing not to use it, as if I'm the one who's doing it the wrong way by ignoring an obviously beneficial feature. In that context, playing the game without the map becomes a 'challenge run' while playing with the map is the assumed path, but I really enjoy how not having a map feels like an intentional design choice and would like to see that pushed as a feature instead of a drawback.
It's really splitting hairs I know, and people can of course choose to play with the map or without it regardless of how the game frames it.

To give a constructive solution instead of just complaining, maybe there could be an accessibility option for the map, and if you have it On, the full map appears as an in-game pickup, while if you have it Off, the same item is replaced with say, a static picture of a map which implies how the different areas connect but doesn't actively update and is more of a 'clue' than a key feature.

I admit that I haven't tried the beta map yet and it sounds pretty ok and not overly intrusive or hand-holdy. Just wanted to share some thoughts on this since I know there's been a lot of feedback in favor of a map and am glad to see that others enjoyed the game without a map as well and are making their voices heard.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

The only thing the map really helps with is showing doors to rooms you haven’t explored yet, and you still have to keep track of them in-game because it might be that you haven’t gone that way because you need an ability.

[Seeker of Knowledge]

I can't find the map, just says 'memory hazy'. I've already played the game before the map
beta update. I have 4 keys can't find the 5th one :( Anybody know where exactly is the map?

[Zepondrax]

Did you opt to in for the beta?

Originally posted by Seeker of Knowledge:

I can't find the map, just says 'memory hazy'. I've already played the game before the map
beta update. I have 4 keys can't find the 5th one :( Anybody know where exactly is the map?

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Seeker of Knowledge:

I can't find the map, just says 'memory hazy'. I've already played the game before the map
beta update. I have 4 keys can't find the 5th one :( Anybody know where exactly is the map?

It’s in a new room off of the first save room in Castle Sansa, coming from the Dungeon.