Dark Souls 2 is a decent game, but not a Souls game.

[Pareod]

I suppose this will be my short review of Dark Souls 2. I enjoyed the game. I have over 100 hours on it. It just wasn't a Souls game. What I mean by this is that it lacked almost everything that made Demon's Souls and Dark Souls the masterpieces that they were. I've beaten all three multiple times now, and Dark Souls 2 just can't keep up with the quality of its predecessors.

The first issue I'd like to bring up is the world. Demon's Souls' world design was restrictive, but masterful. Dark Souls' world was open an ingeniously interconnected., I'm not going into whether level based or open world is better, because I think both are great. Purely in terms of design and atmosphere Dark Souls 2 lacks. It has variety no doubt, but the constant drastic change in scenery makes for shallow lore and a feel of disconnection. For example, shaded woods to Aldias Keep to Dragon Shrine don't logically follow. Neither does Heides tower of flame to No Man's Wharf. The areas are too short to merit such sudden and illogical changes in scenery. In comparison to how the Tower of Latria slowly became more open and corrupted as you progressed, or how you could see the Tomb of Giants from fiery area after Quaelagg. The world in Dark Souls was tied together. The world in Demon's Souls was diverse per archstone and each level logically followed the next. The world in Dark Souls 2 was pumped full of variety that makes no sense and seems shallow.

Next I'll discuss the lore and characters and bosses. Demon's Souls featured few characters, but each encounter was unique and dramatic. Fighting Garl Vinland and claiming his priestess' soul was tense and morally ambiguous. Almost every character had a story arch, and all of them were interesting. The bosses were incredibly diverse and difficult. They also felt fair. The penetrator on ng+++ isn't a grind to kill in terms of hp, but if you got hit it really hurt. Demon's Souls was also the only game to feature the spell Second Chance (or whatever it's called) which gave you two lives. However, I think it was the only game that needed it given it's difficulty. All of these characters and bosses created a very interesting world with deep lore. Dark Souls was a bigger beast, but it was just as good. Most characters had great storylines. The bosses were diverse and challenging. I'd like to say that Ornstein and Smough was an amazing climax for the game. The lore matched the world, deep and interconnected. Dark Souls 2 had a lot of characters and a lot of bosses. Very few characters had significant stories, and most were uninteresting and easy to miss. The bosses varied in skin but not concept, and many were blatant repeats from Dark Souls. As for lore, the failures of world design and characters made the lore just as illogical and uninteresting. The Giants were the only universal idea.

Now I'll just discuss concepts I think Dark Souls 2 did not have that defined the Souls games. In no particular order: firstly there were no reappearing enemies such as the titanite demon's, hydras, dragons, or heavy knights. This would have unified the world lore wise. Secondly the weapon upgrade system was changed for the worse I believe. Progression was discarded for streamlined convenience. Trade a boss soul for a boss weapon. No need to upgrade a weapon. It might be nit-picky, but I think it was a core part of the souls games. Also boss souls seem much more insignificant. There are no little bits of uniqueness in the design such as tail cuts on bosses. There was only one ending with the false hope of two based on dialogue at the end. This honestly just feels like sacrilege to the souls series so that's all I'll say about that. Only about 4 bosses are required to beat the game, and the final boss seems arbitrary to the story. The story just seems to lose focus and then you fight a big evil sorceress queen and then done. The covenants feel more like player guilds than lore based allegiances. The weapons and spells are numerous but unbalanced

The list goes on, but I think I've made my point. Dark Souls 2 is a fun game, it just needs a different name.

[Khan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Tenshi CZ:

Asylum Demon
Demon Firesage
Stray Demon

I would be ashamed to put this triple times recycled boss into flame war and call him original. haha :D:

Then the three from the DLC as well.

[AstinDextor]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Верный:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Luisfius:

Eh, I doubt it. This one has more non-humanoid bosses than Dark 1 did, to be honest.

DaS1:
Asylum Demon
The Bed of Chaos
Kalameet
Ceaseless Discharge
Centipede Demon
Demon Firesage
Gaping Dragon
Manus
Moonlight Butterfly
Sanctuary Guardian
Seath the Scaleless
Sif
Taurus Demon
Hydra
Undead Dragon
Gargoyles
Quelaag

=17

DaS2:
Executioner's Chariot
Covetous Demon
Old Iron King
Scorpioness Najka
Royal Rat Authority
Royal Rat Vanguard
Freja
The Rotten
Demon of Song
Guardian Dragon
Ancient Dragon
Gargoyles

=12

You said?

Please explain why The Rotten is not humanoid, but Nashandra is? And what about Queen Mythal? I've never met a woman with a snake body, but hey, maybe you and I run in different circles. Flexile Sentry? Again, you know some ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up humanoids. And Dark Souls 1 you include Asylum Demon and Firesage Demon, but not Stray Demon? O.o

As for the OP you can have whatever opinion you want, and you can support or not support your reasons as much as you want. But whether or not Dark SOULS 2 is a Souls game is a matter of objective fact, not a matter of opinion. It's a souls game. Feel free to discuss how it stacks up as part of a series, but you don't get to be gatekeeper of objective facts.

[Khan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Верный:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Luisfius:

Eh, I doubt it. This one has more non-humanoid bosses than Dark 1 did, to be honest.

DaS1:
Asylum Demon Original (Counts as 1)
The Bed of Chaos I really want to consider this not a boss, but will allow it.
Kalameet DLC boss
Ceaseless Discharge
Centipede Demon
Demon Firesage Rehash
Gaping Dragon
Manus DLC boss
Moonlight Butterfly
Sanctuary Guardian DLC boss
Seath the Scaleless
Stray Demon Rehash (Also forgot to list it, Added it it)
Sif
Taurus Demon
Hydra Not a boss
Undead Dragon Still not a boss
Gargoyles
Quelaag

=17 11

DaS2:
Executioner's Chariot (its a horse!)
Covetous Demon (JABBA)
Old Iron King (Diablo reject)
Scorpioness Najka (I cant even...)
Royal Rat Authority (Damn rats....)
Royal Rat Vanguard (Sif wannabe)
Freja ( Huge ass spider)
The Rotten ( WHAT THE ♥♥♥♥ IS THAT?!?!?)
Demon of Song (Reminds me of battletodes)
Guardian Dragon (A dragon)
Ancient Dragon (A bigger damn dragon)
Gargoyles ( Like we needed to see these muppets again)

=12

You said?

Fixed that up for you

[Taiga]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Khan:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Верный:

DaS1:
Asylum Demon Original (Counts as 1)
The Bed of Chaos I really want to consider this not a boss, but will allow it.
Kalameet DLC boss
Ceaseless Discharge
Centipede Demon
Demon Firesage Rehash
Gaping Dragon
Manus DLC boss
Moonlight Butterfly
Sanctuary Guardian DLC boss
Seath the Scaleless
Stray Demon Rehash (Also forgot to list it, Added it it)
Sif
Taurus Demon
Hydra Not a boss
Undead Dragon Still not a boss
Gargoyles
Quelaag

=17 11

DaS2:
Executioner's Chariot
Covetous Demon
Old Iron King
Scorpioness Najka
Royal Rat Authority
Royal Rat Vanguard
Freja
The Rotten
Demon of Song
Guardian Dragon
Ancient Dragon
Gargoyles

=12

You said?

Fixed that up for you

You took out the Bosses from the DLC, and the Stray Demon and his other versions because "rehashed", also the mini-bosses for some reason, but kept the gargoyles and Najka which are literally rehashes from DaS1. Can you be more of a fanboy?
Also, Stray Demon was used like 6 times in DaS1, just like Dragonrider is used twice, Ornstain is rehashed and The Persuer is used 5 times in DaS2, so.. yeah.

Początkowo opublikowane przez AstinDextor:

Please explain why The Rotten is not humanoid, but Nashandra is? And what about Queen Mythal? I've never met a woman with a snake body, but hey, maybe you and I run in different circles. Flexile Sentry? Again, you know some ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up humanoids. And Dark Souls 1 you include Asylum Demon and Firesage Demon, but not Stray Demon? O.o

I added them in a edit in the last page if I remember right, if not I'll do it

[Deathcrush]

I have played Souls games since i imported demon souls from japan and this discusion is basicly the same thing that happend with dark souls vs demon souls. where people claimed demon was vastly superior to dark. i don`t totaly disagree with you OP but i think the main problem with dark souls 2 is not inn the transitions between locations or the bosses but in the lore, and that the lore isn`t as convoluted or hidden away as it was in dark souls. but it have a striking resemblance to demon souls in that you have a goal and you should reach it. als other things that are similar is inn demon souls you have king alant and the old one and here you have king vendric and nashandra. but in dark souls you get freed from some prison by some guy that dies and dont tell you anything inn spesific about why and then get taken by a crow someplace else cause reasons and then some guy who have clearly given upp hope and is crestfallen tells you about some bells and go do that and see what happens then a serpent thing comes to tell you that you are the chosen undead. and you should go on an epic journey. this is far more hero esque and shows more power fantasy kind of thiing than demon did and dark souls 2 does.and ofc the whole pendant thing was genious. but if i am to say what i feel about ds 2 vs ds 1 i think that yes dark souls is a better game than ds2 but if i take away all the nostalgia from demon i would put dark souls 2 right besides it

[Khan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Верный:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Khan:

Fixed that up for you

You took out the Bosses from the DLC, and the Stray Demon and his other versions because "rehashed", also the mini-bosses for some reason, but kept the gargoyles and Najka which are literally rehashes from DaS1. Can you be more of a fanboy?
Also, Stray Demon was used like 6 times in DaS1, just like Dragonrider is used twice, Ornstain is rehashed and The Persuer is used 5 times, so.. yeah.

Can you be any more sad? Insulting me just got you real far.

"Boss list" Not mini boss.

Base game to base game.

Persuer is not even on the list nor does he qualifie to make it on.
Same for Dragon Rider.
Edit: As well as Ornstein, for obious reasons.

Read post next time.

[Taiga]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Khan:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Верный:

You took out the Bosses from the DLC, and the Stray Demon and his other versions because "rehashed", also the mini-bosses for some reason, but kept the gargoyles and Najka which are literally rehashes from DaS1. Can you be more of a fanboy?
Also, Stray Demon was used like 6 times in DaS1, just like Dragonrider is used twice, Ornstain is rehashed and The Persuer is used 5 times, so.. yeah.

Can you be any more sad? Insulting me just got you real far.

"Boss list" Not mini boss.

Base game to base game. Persuer is not even on the list nor does he qualified to make it on.
Same for Dragon Rider.

Read post next time.

From where did the "base game from base game" rule came? Unless you're one of those people who separates Artorias of the Abyss from "DaS1" for some reason, since it came as a whole in the PC version.

Maybe you should read some posts after, there are no mini-bosses from DaS2 on the list because there's not a single mini.boss not humanoid I would add them if there were.

I mentioned the thing about the Persuer and the other rehashes because of this comment

Początkowo opublikowane przez Tenshi CZ:

Asylum Demon
Demon Firesage
Stray Demon

I would be ashamed to put this triple times recycled boss into flame war and call him original. haha :D:

As people seems to forget that DaS2 rehashed even more stuff then DaS1.

[Pareod]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Tenshi CZ:

Oh, its less tedious now. Thats so not souls game :(((( /Sarcasm

Simple doesn't mean better. They made it easier when it should be a challenge.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Deathcrush:

I have played Souls games since i imported demon souls from japan and this discusion is basicly the same thing that happend with dark souls vs demon souls. where people claimed demon was vastly superior to dark. i don`t totaly disagree with you OP but i think the main problem with dark souls 2 is not inn the transitions between locations or the bosses but in the lore, and that the lore isn`t as convoluted or hidden away as it was in dark souls. but it have a striking resemblance to demon souls in that you have a goal and you should reach it. als other things that are similar is inn demon souls you have king alant and the old one and here you have king vendric and nashandra. but in dark souls you get freed from some prison by some guy that dies and dont tell you anything inn spesific about why and then get taken by a crow someplace else cause reasons and then some guy who have clearly given upp hope and is crestfallen tells you about some bells and go do that and see what happens then a serpent thing comes to tell you that you are the chosen undead. and you should go on an epic journey. this is far more hero esque and shows more power fantasy kind of thiing than demon did and dark souls 2 does.and ofc the whole pendant thing was genious. but if i am to say what i feel about ds 2 vs ds 1 i think that yes dark souls is a better game than ds2 but if i take away all the nostalgia from demon i would put dark souls 2 right besides it

I see your argument, but although DS2 has similarities with Demon's Souls, I think it is a very weak comparison. The goal in DS2 is rather unclear, and not in a riddling way, just in a very simple way. Why are you going around killing bosses in order to stop Na-what's-her-name? Who cares. Why are you stopping the Old One? Because you are another adventurer who braved the fog in order to stop the land from being swallowed. They put a lot more focus on pumping out more fights in DS2 than they did crafting the world and lore.

[Khan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Верный:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Khan:

Can you be any more sad? Insulting me just got you real far.

"Boss list" Not mini boss.

Base game to base game. Persuer is not even on the list nor does he qualified to make it on.
Same for Dragon Rider.

Read post next time.

Also, from where did the "base game from base game" rule came? Unless you're one of those people who separates Artorias of the Abyss from "DaS1" for some reason, since it came as a whole in the PC version.

Maybe you should read some posts after, there are no mini-bosses from DaS2 on the list because there's not a single mini.boss not humanoid I would add them if there were.

I mentioned the thing about the Persuer and the other rehashes because of this comment

Początkowo opublikowane przez Tenshi CZ:

Asylum Demon
Demon Firesage
Stray Demon

I would be ashamed to put this triple times recycled boss into flame war and call him original. haha :D:

As people seems to forget that DaS2 rehashed even more stuff then DaS1.

Under that logic, It would be fair to comapre WoW and all of its expansions to a new MMO like Wildstar, for example.

Hence why dlc is seperated. Even when it comes bundeled with the base game, as the scale becomes tilted.

I dont even want to get into dlc to dlc comparisons.
Edit: forgot the X

[Luis]

The Pursuer is used once as a boss. The other times are optional and he does not even get a boss lifebar.
Stray, Asylum, Firesage are all counted as bosses. Dark 1 recycles far more than Dark 2 does. Dark 2 does recycle from Dark 1, but it is not a straight rehash, there is always a twist.
Old Dragonslayer IS Ornstein, but far easier. The Gargoyles are tricky since you expect two at most (then again the Gargs in Dark 1 were a downgrade recycling from the Maneater), and unlike 6 Taurus + a dozen capras, Dark 2 uses Flexile a grand total of two times.

Then again it more than makes up for it with the Ruin Sentinels, but they are even harder in their rematch.

[Taiga]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Khan:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Верный:

Also, from where did the "base game from base game" rule came? Unless you're one of those people who separates Artorias of the Abyss from "DaS1" for some reason, since it came as a whole in the PC version.

Maybe you should read some posts after, there are no mini-bosses from DaS2 on the list because there's not a single mini.boss not humanoid I would add them if there were.

I mentioned the thing about the Persuer and the other rehashes because of this comment



As people seems to forget that DaS2 rehashed even more stuff then DaS1.

Under that logic, It would be fair to comapre WoW and all of its expansions to a new MMO like Wildstar, for example.

Hence why dlc is seperated. Even when it comes bundeled with the base game, as the scale becomes tilted.

I dont even want to get into dlc to dlc comparisons.
Edit: forgot the X

Fair enough.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Luisfius:

The Pursuer is used once as a boss. The other times are optional and he does not even get a boss lifebar.
Stray, Asylum, Firesage are all counted as bosses. Dark 1 recycles far more than Dark 2 does. Dark 2 does recycle from Dark 1, but it is not a straight rehash, there is always a twist.
Old Dragonslayer IS Ornstein, but far easier. The Gargoyles are tricky since you expect two at most (then again the Gargs in Dark 1 were a downgrade recycling from the Maneater), and unlike 6 Taurus + a dozen capras, Dark 2 uses Flexile a grand total of two times.

Then again it more than makes up for it with the Ruin Sentinels, but they are even harder in their rematch.

A rehash is a rehash, man, making the fight easier or harder is not really "giving it a twist" is still the same, of being like you said then the Stray Demon rehashes all have a twist that makes them not a straight rehashes and therefore should be acknowledge on the list.

[Pareod]

So I think this is a really good video exlaining the shortcomings of DS2. If you don't want to watch the whole thing just watch where he compares DS1 pot to DS2 plot. It's great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScsme8didI&feature=player_detailpage#t=701

[Luis]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Верный:

A rehash is a rehash, man, making the fight easier or harder is not really "giving it a twist" is still the same, of being like you said then the Stray Demon rehashes all have a twist that makes them not a straight rehashes and therefore should be acknowledge on the list.

Firesage is slightly different, but stray and Asylum are lazier than anything put in Dark 2.
A rehash is a rehash, yes, but in Dark 2 they are put there with a twist that plays on your expectations. "Hm, these dudes again. It'll be easy" and then you get swarmed because you expected two. Not six. Dragon Slayer is easier, from being one of the most imposing bosses in Dark 1 to being, well, more or less a pushover comparatively. They are recycled from the previous game, but they are less lazy than what Dark 1 did.

[Luis]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pareod:

So I think this is a really good video exlaining the shortcomings of DS2. If you don't want to watch the whole thing just watch where he compares DS1 pot to DS2 plot. It's great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScsme8didI&feature=player_detailpage#t=701

And again with that one. Old, and not worth rewatching.

[Bird of Few Birds]

Alright, lets count all the bosses that are humanoid from one and two.
Dark Souls:
Capra demon.
Priscilla
Ceaseless discharge
Asylum demon
Artorias
Iron golem
Gwyn
Nito
Four kings
Ornstein
Smough
Gwyndolin

12
(14 if you count the asylum rehashes)

Dark Souls 2:
Looking glass knight
Vendrick
The lost sinner
Pursuer
Dragonrider
Dragonslayer
Nashranda
Smelter demon
Velstadt
Defender and watcher
Skeleton lords
Mytha
Darklurker
Old iron king
14
(16 if you count the butt hole monsters)
Dark Souls 2 only has two more humanoids either way you count it.