Some Questions on Santier's Spear after Nerf

[Lannistark]

I have been playing Dark Souls 2 for about a month now and have been slowly working my way (unfortunately I can't play as much as I'd like) throughout the game to reach the Santier's spear. I don't really PVP unless invaded and most of my interactions with other real world players are limited to sun-broing. After reading all the comments from the PVP community I can understand why they nerfed the weapon, however, ever since watching a YouTube video on the moveset and having always been a fan of spears since Demon Souls, it's a weapon I really couldn't wait to get and rebuild my character around. As you can imagine, I was disappointed when I read about the patch yesterday and my questions are:

1) Is this weapon is still decent and viable for PVE? If so, I've heard the mundane infusion is no longer a good idea and some have recommended raw. I really liked the idea of a mundane build as it seems that it's a build that can tinker and use multiple weapons/spells. Has anyone experimented with different infusions after the patch?

2)Currently, I am using a Heide Knight sword +9, with about 45 faith and 17 strength (ATK of 372). How would a current mundane (or other type) of Santier's spear compare to this in terms of damage output? My mundane build would have probably had 20 as the lowest attribute. I don't really care to cheese bosses or other players, I just want damage on par (or better hopefully) than what I currently do.

[Beel]

Santiers is still an amazing weapon due to that stupid good moveset. Get good with it and you really don't need anything else.

Heide Knight Sword doesn't scale well with FTH iirc, get a Defenders Greatsword for massive FTH scaling and damage. Or just infuse a weapon you like with Lightning. But Heide Knight Sword has a -meh- moveset and doesnt scale well with FTH.

Mundane build will do a ton of damage. Pre-nerf ResoWeap did more damage than Mundane on Santiers though, but Mundane does huge damage.

Mundane works like this: You get 6 damage per your lowest level, to a softcap of 30, then only 1 damage. It's something like that, anyways.

Just get your lowest lvl to 30 and dont worry about 20s damage. 20 is inferior, thats all you need to know.

[Merkava]

1) The weapon can work... it does decent enough damage with its two handed R1 but just barely and at high levels with mundane. They hit the mundane infusion REAL hard with the nerfball, as it looses a whooping 75 attack power (from 100 to 25 at +5). It still has the benefit of being indestructible. If you want a decent replacement, however, the stone twinblade can work. It has a very similar moveset and has pretty high attack power (not as crazy high as pre-nerf santiers but still pretty good).

2) The current Santiers could out DPS it but not by that much. If you have such high Faith then I would recomend a lightning infused defenders greatsword. Infusing the Heiden Knight Sword with lightning also gives it a pretty massive lighting boost (the scaling gives off the wrong info, but its pretty high).

[Beel]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Merkava:

1) The weapon can work... it does decent enough damage with its two handed R1 but just barely and at high levels with mundane. They hit the mundane infusion REAL hard with the nerfball, as it looses a whooping 75 attack power (from 100 to 25 at +5). It still has the benefit of being indestructible. If you want a decent replacement, however, the stone twinblade can work. It has a very similar moveset and has pretty high attack power (not as crazy high as pre-nerf santiers but still pretty good).

2) The current Santiers could out DPS it but not by that much. If you have such high Faith then I would recomend a lightning infused defenders greatsword. Infusing the Heiden Knight Sword with lightning also gives it a pretty massive lighting boost (the scaling gives off the wrong info, but its pretty high).

Stone Twinblade doesnt have near the moveset or the reach of Santiers and breaks quite easily

Stone twinblade has the twinblade moveset, Santiers has twinblade, spear, halberd, and curved sword.

[Merkava]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Beel:

Stone Twinblade doesnt have near the moveset or the reach of Santiers and breaks quite easily

Stone twinblade has the twinblade moveset, Santiers has twinblade, spear, halberd, and curved sword.

The two handed R1 and spinning R1 are the same (which is the move that most people spam anyway). I'm not saying its a full on replacement, it just does considerably more damage than santiers post-nerf. Santiers is workable but will take a serious setback against opponents with high defense, like bosses.

[Beel]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Merkava:

The two handed R1 and spinning R1 are the same (which is the move that most people spam anyway). I'm not saying its a full on replacement, it just does considerably more damage than santiers post-nerf. Santiers is workable but will take a serious setback against opponents with high defense, like bosses.

it's the move that most people spam, but it's only 1/4 of its amazing moveset. It was just the easiest to spam for massive hitbox/damage.

It has the poke of a spear, the all-in of a twinblade, the spin2win of a halberd, and the rundown flip of a curved sword.

Santiers does -everything-. Only relying on one of its moves is why people said it was beatable even when its OP. A good user of Santiers is something to be feared, indeed.

And Stone Twinblade breaks so stupidly fast and has such small range it makes me sad. (I have 2, I wish I got to use them more without feeling like I was gimping myself)

[Merkava]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Beel:

it's the move that most people spam, but it's only 1/4 of its amazing moveset. It was just the easiest to spam for massive hitbox/damage.

It has the poke of a spear, the all-in of a twinblade, the spin2win of a halberd, and the rundown flip of a curved sword.

Santiers does -everything-. Only relying on one of its moves is why people said it was beatable even when its OP. A good user of Santiers is something to be feared, indeed.

And Stone Twinblade breaks so stupidly fast and has such small range it makes me sad. (I have 2, I wish I got to use them more without feeling like I was gimping myself)

That's nice and all (and I do agree with a significant portion of that) but you're forgetting one important fact...

I don't really PVP unless invaded and most of my interactions with other real world players are limited to sun-broing.

What you're saying seems to apply more to PvP players. As a PvE user most of the other moves are relatively useless. Spin-to-win rarely kills off most enemies and leaves you open for a counter and the other moves altho very useful in PvP, as you mentioned, aren't nowhere near as useful as the basic Two-handed R1 in PvE.

Ultimately Santiers can still be used thanks to its endless durability and high poise damage but if you're looking for higher DPS, in PvE, then I just mentioned the Stone Twinblade as a great alternative. Getting it to the 400+ attack range is very easy.

About the durability? I haven't been using it for long but I haven't had a single problem with its durability. Then again, I don't go around killing EVERYTHING with the weapon (neither did I do with santiers). If you where the type to just use Santiers as an all-in-one tool (nothting really wrong with that) then yes, the change to a weapon that actually breaks is going to be a major problem.

Edit: Also worth nothing that the attack nerf will most likely make it so even mundane santiers will have problem piercing the defense of any heavy armor player (in the case of an invasion).

[Lannistark]

I appreciate the suggestions. I'll check out the lightning defender greatsword and the stone twinblade as well. If I were to stick with Santier's do you have any recommendations on the infusion? I have 2 soulvessels and can always repec...Right now I am about SL 130.

[Beel]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lannistark:

I appreciate the suggestions. I'll check out the lightning defender greatsword and the stone twinblade as well. If I were to stick with Santier's do you have any recommendations on the infusion? I have 2 soulvessels and can always repec...Right now I am about SL 130.

I'd say infuse it Raw until you have the levels for

-Elemental infusion + a good buff

or

-Mundane