Mytha, The Baneful Queen - Lore Hour.

[Toxophilite [East]]

Something really grabs me about this area of the game - Earthen Peak. All things considered, to get here you must first travel through Huntsman's Copse; only after defeating the Skeleton Lords - which afterward leads to Iron Keep (a major part of the game). It's location might mean something, but I'm sorting that out in my head now.

This is important to what i plan to present tho~ so let me get this out first:

That creature, she was human, once, you know.
Hmm, In fact, she was wed to the Prince of that nearby castle.
But her husband, hmm, he had feelings for another.
The Princess was desperate, and sought eternal beauty.
Hoping that it would restore the Prince's, ah, affection, ha you see what I mean.
Before long, the Princess' ire transformed her into a monster. -Laddersmith Gilligan

Ok, with that outta the way - here's my theory. I speculate that Mytha is Zullie the Witch who became a Princess after marry Knight Alva. I believe Alva either discovered what Mytha/Zullie did to Saint Serreta and left her out of anger, or he got bored of her and moved on to another woman. Who is the woman? I suspect Elana, Squalid Queen.

The connection I'm reaching for is Alva cosplaying as Jester Thomas, which is why he appears in the DLC content as a Red Phantom and a White Phantom outside the Boss room in Earthen Peak. Somebody find holes in my theroy before I contine please. I'm getting a lil' too excited. :3

[Argon]

Oh wow.

That explains Thomas, who confused me a lot.

[Empress Misery]

Why would marrying a kight make her a Princess?

[Dura]

The hole is:
Why should Alva cosplay as Jester Thomas? Would it mean anything for the player or even Mytha?

Also "Prince in the nearby Castle" could be either the prince of belfry sol OR the iron king had a son which isn't listed in the game because he died before the undead curse OR the prince is the iron king as you are first a prince and then a king.

It could also be that Jester Thomas went hollow or something like that and that it doesn't have any deeper meaning at all. Like almost all npcs in ds2. I mean - father and daughter, 10 meter apart, never talk with each other. But we will probably never know, as we can only speculate.

[Argon]

There are a few holes. There's a good Mytha lore theory on either Fextralife or Wikidot, let me get the link to that...

[Argon]

http://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Lore

Very bottom, the one with Mytha.

[Toxophilite [East]]

No objections so far? Ok.

Here's the thing, as far as I know - there is no specific time given that states when or where Alva gave up his knighthood. I suspect he gave it up after finding out who and what Zullie was, a backstabbing liar. Zullie probably had the idea that being beautiful was much more impartant then it actually was and because she had nothing else going for but looks and lies, she turned bitter. I think the weapon you create from her soul, Mytha's Bent Blade is very symbolic. I also believe it closely relates to the Jester's Robes as well.

It's possible that Alva poisoned Myth/Zullie as a for of revenge. I also beleive that Elana had a hand in it somehow as well. I'm pretty sure the incident in Dragon Sanctum and Harvest Valley are tied together, but we know for sure the city being covered in poison was an accident, driven by misguided belief. I'm still putting things together, but feel free to present evidance to the contrary if possible. :3

[Toxophilite [East]]

Publicado originalmente por Flufflina "away until 30th":

Why would marrying a kight make her a Princess?

I believe Alva was the Old Iron Kings son and also a knight. It would explain the ties between Harvest Valley and The Iron Keep, as I beleive the materials to build his fortress were farmed there. It would also explain why the Queen/Princess would have ties to 'ok' the King farming on her property.

[Toxophilite [East]]

Publicado originalmente por ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ:

http://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Lore
Very bottom, the one with Mytha.

The problem with that persons theory is that it goes against already-existing in-game lore. It's already suggested that the reason for the Iron Keeps disaster was because of the King's ambitious project - collapsing under its own weight.

There's no suggestion anyone in Iron Keep wanted to recreate the First Flame. As far as we know, there was no legit reason to do so. The Kings Keep appeared to be very prosperous and bustling with traveling merchants and foreign visitors.

Also, there is no connection between the Lost Sinner and The Old Iron King aside from a door and Gwens soul. The resposiblilty concernign the fall of the Kingdom was indirectly the Kings fault alone. What would the Lost Sinner have to be guilty about, and why would she suddenly lock herself away after this incident when it clearly suggests her sin was something else?

[Toxophilite [East]]

Publicado originalmente por Dura:

The hole is:
Why should Alva cosplay as Jester Thomas? Would it mean anything for the player or even Mytha?

I believe it plays much on Alva's possible personality of feeling like a 'fool' for trusting Mytha/Zullie and instead of being depressed about it like most, he became a Jester. The lore behind the Jester's Set is intereresting as it states, "Jesters are more than festival fixtures; some have a second face, hidden from public view" (notice how the mask is always smiling). The important connection is Mytha's Bent Blade and the Jester's Robes.

I beleive Alva got the idea of giving up his Knighthood and being a Jester was inspired by both Zullies deception, pretending to be something she's not, and also because of the fact Jester's are symbolic to the once great prosperity of his Father's Kingdom, " more than festival fixtures".

Publicado originalmente por Dura:

Also "Prince in the nearby Castle" could be either the prince of belfry sol OR the iron king had a son which isn't listed in the game because he died before the undead curse OR the prince is the iron king as you are first a prince and then a king.

I believe that Prince to be Alva. It would also explain the marionettes who protect the Bells in both areas. As far as I know~ Mytha has the ability to use puppets to do her will.

Publicado originalmente por Dura:

It could also be that Jester Thomas went hollow or something like that and that it doesn't have any deeper meaning at all. Like almost all npcs in ds2. I mean - father and daughter, 10 meter apart, never talk with each other. But we will probably never know, as we can only speculate.

It seems to connect in a much deeper way tho. I can't get over the idea that Mytha's soul creates a dagger, which is a backstabbing weapon, and Jester Thomas wears the Jester's Robes. Him knowing pyromancy (Thomas) and the other Bell being located in The Lost Bastille where the Lost Sinner is certinaly is interesting. That theory I disregarded needs a second look. Hmmm.

[THE Sherlock Holmes]

Mytha is Iron King's queen.

[Toxophilite [East]]

Publicado originalmente por Eyjafjallajokull_TheVolcano:

Mytha is Iron King's queen.

But he's the "Old Iron King" meaning, he's been King for a very long time. Why would Laddersmith Gilligan refer to her as "Princess" and the Old King as "Prince"? Also, why does her soul create a "Bent Blade/Dagger". With the Old Iron King dead and Alva missing, Mytha would become queen if his wife was also never heard of again, but if the Old Iron King was in-fact the Prince refered to by lore, who was the King before him?

[Savrola-Games]

Maybe not, though this is what I have read/seen, my own assumptions and should not be taken as fact... period.

Alva and Zullie follow the old storyline of good knight on a quest, initially opposed by an evil woman, woman falls in love with knight and aids him. I think these two characters are completely seperate, probably existing as a legend within the time frame of this game world.

The Prince of Venn and the Princess of Alden (?) are also seperate characters, from Kingdoms long in place before the rise of Drangliec and Alonne. Following the storyline of Romeo & Juliet, star-crossed lovers who can never be together due to the emnity of their two warring families they construct the bell towers to signal their unrequited love to each other.

Next up comes the rise of Alonne and the Iron King, Alonne appears to be built on the remains of Venn and looks like belfry Sol was incorporated into it's make-up, just like Drangliec repurposed the Lost bastille to be a prison for hollows.

The Iron King was either married or engaged to Mytha and was rejected by him, not unusual in real life, many royal families endured love-less marriges for strategic/dynastic purposes, Henry VIII was a well known figure in terms of going through wives like there was no tomorrow.

She then goes all Glenn Close, fatal attraction stylee and starts turning into a monster. Iron King has yet to turn into a deviant, as hinted at in various item descriptions and exiles Mytha away from the castle where her evil turns her into a medusa clone. Meanwhile Iron King and Alonne fall out of the frying pan and into the fire, literally.

Of note is a third character, the covetous demon. Once a man who desired a woman, but was rejected, finding solace in consumption. A rejected suitor of Mytha's who in turn only had eyes for Old King Iron pants? He is found down at the bottom of Earthen Peak, wallowing in his own self-pity.

[Toxophilite [East]]

Publicado originalmente por Caliphat-H8:

Maybe not, though this is what I have read/seen, my own assumptions and should not be taken as fact... period.

Well~ fact kinda has no place in Dark Souls lore anyway, as most sources that prove fact are given from outside gaem information or hidden files. What you say can very well be true, but I believe the biggest hint we get that a lot of these stories and character names are the same people is from the Hunter's Black Bow, which reads: The hunting Goddess Evlana was no goddess at all, but rather a brave and highly skilled bow huntress. Long after her demise, the passing of lore transformed her into a deity.

To me~ that's the largest hint in-game that we shouldn't take everything we learn at face value. Just because a person changes their name, or some for of lore changes a story~ always look at the finer details - the world. The world will never lie to you. :3

[Esna]

Perhaps the upcoming DLC might shed some light on your theory?

Edit: The Black Witch Set item desciption mentions: "...Robe worn by Zullie the witch, suducer of Alva of Wayfarer... When Zullie the witch learned of Alva's dedication to Saint Serrate she used all manner of tricks and deceit to ruin him, but in the end she would spend her life with him, supporting his endeavors."

In turn, the Black Witch's Staff mentions: "Staff used by Leydia Witches. Imbued with a special magic, making it a catalyst for sorceries, miracles, and hexes. Laydia apostles are adept at magic, and wielded unique weapons, but were deemed blasphemous and slaughtered.

Perhaps you can find some clues in the Undead Crypt?

[Toxophilite [East]]

Lemme get my thoughts in order so you gais can see where I'm going with this.

Loose connections:
Alva (A wandering Knight) + Zullie (A deceitful witch) = Saint Serreta (A sick or afflicted maiden).

Alken (The land of the Prince) + Venn (The Home of the Princess) = Belfry Sol/Belfry Luna

Belfry Sol (Belfry of the Sun) + Belfry Luna (Belfry of the Moon) = Iron Keep and The Lost Bastille

Iron Keeps notable item (Dull Ember) + The Lost Bastille notable character (McDuff). = Weapon Infusion and superior consumables (almost madatory).

"The Princess" Mytha the Baneful Queen + "The Prince" Unknown (according to Gilligan) = Earthen Peak falling into ruin (Poison).

Mytha the Baneful Queen is a magic user. + Zullie is certainly a magic user. = Some trivial similarity, but worth considering.

Jester Thomas is hinted to have a "second face hidden from public view" + Alva gave up being a knight after failing to find a cure or solution to Saint Serreta's affliction. = Jester Thomas is just a cosplay, Alva likely decided to take up another duty or mantle afterward.

So why even consider Zullie and Alva having anything to do with Mytha or Jester Thomas, or even Iron Keep? It's because the love story is incomplete even if the lore suggests as much. Zullie is likely the reason Alva failed to save Serreta. I suspect Serreta was very special to Alva in some way, but because he was know as a wondering Knight - it's likely it never grew past anything noticble to other people.

I suspect that Serreta and Zullie might have been related or known one another. There was some form or obsession and betrayal going on in the story for it to just end with Alva and Zullie licng out thier days together in some vague fashion. Also, Mytha's soul being used to craft a Boss Grade Dagger is very interesting. Espcially a dagger with strong poision.

The one loose connection I can't let go of is the fact Zullie had so many different kinds of headgear, a hat, a veil and a mask. Two are found in Belfry Sol and the remaining pieces are sold by Royal Sorcerer Navlaan. Why are the other pieces so well hidden? Why are they in Belfry Sol? The hidden parts to Zullies constume being located in an area surrounding a love story just seems too much of a coincidence to me.