München-Augsburg PZB Bug

[PD | LocoGaming]

I love this route, but there are major flaws with the PZB.
Most of the Time i get a 1000hz if i pass a hp1 signal if the next signal shows hp2. So basically the 1000hz is one signal ahead of which it should be.
Does anybody know if this i known to dtg and if they are trying to fix it?
Until this is fixed it's just no fun to play this route...

[Myron]

this whole route is just a graveyard of PZB issues. it's not even worth playing. needs a remaster honestly

[Metallos]

Originally posted by PD | LocoGaming:

Most of the Time i get a 1000hz if i pass a hp1 signal if the next signal shows hp2. So basically the 1000hz is one signal ahead of which it should be.

Are those signals in combination with a "Vorsignal" (distant signal) Vr2 or an other indication of a speed below 90 km/h? If yes, then you have a 1000 Hz at this point.

[Starlight ignited]

I can clearly confirm that this Route has an uncountable amout of Bugs related to PZB and LZB. A while ago, I've made a Video covering only a few Issues along the S3/S4 Section of Munich - Augsburg:

https://youtu.be/FrIVSmR04OM

[PD | LocoGaming]

Originally posted by Metallos:

Originally posted by PD | LocoGaming:

Most of the Time i get a 1000hz if i pass a hp1 signal if the next signal shows hp2. So basically the 1000hz is one signal ahead of which it should be.

Are those signals in combination with a "Vorsignal" (distant signal) Vr2 or an other indication of a speed below 90 km/h? If yes, then you have a 1000 Hz at this point.

No they are not... just a normal main signal showing hp1...

[Metallos]

Ok, then it's TSW logic, inactive 2000ers became acvtive 1000ers...


Edit:
About the video one post above:

0:43 - Ks 1 which is also a distant signal with disctance lower than normal (white lamp at top left), only one magnet, seems to be a modern magnet which can be activated for 1000 or 2000 Hz (older ones have only one frequency so at a main signal with distant signal you needed 2 magnets). Train is running on LZB.

The following thing with the 90 km/h (it's NOT called "kph" !!!) it's really a bug with the HUD, it points to the Zs 3v. No wonder why the bugged HUD is needed, TSW still has no track plan or EBuLa. PZB acknowledge didn't need to be pressed because no announcement of a restriction below 90 km/h (the yellow 1000 Hz lamp didn't light up), but pressing too often is better than pressing too less...

You always depart too early. Not a problem with the signals but passenger trains aren't allowed to depart earlier than the timetable says (there were for example also passengers still coming down the stairs). Freight trains often have a timetable with a longer stop (for example let a bunch of other trains pass) but they can (and should, else the dispatcher would get mad) depart if they get for example a "go" (other than stop) signal 3 min before timetable.

3:50 / 4:20 - Maybe you got a Ks2 distant because there's a train in front of you, until you reached the next Ks2 the next block got free meanwhile.

4:50 - You have restricted speed (70 and 85 flashing) because you stopped / drove slow under PZB restrictions or changed direction. But has nothing to to with the bugging signal except it has an active 1000 Hz and you pressed PZB free the last 550 m before to get out of restricted speed (but this would result in a PZB emergency brake).

6:07 - Lamps / signal cable wired wrong, so the color glasses (or LEDs) were changed and the signal shows right aspect again. ;-)
Remember, Deutsche Bahn...

6:22 - We've one Ne 3 with 3 stripes missing in stock, so we take one with one stripe...

The last one: Maybe TSW has problems with the LZB end routine and switching over to PZB. Also UE (primarily made for first person shooters) is not very suitable for such simulators, other train simulators with a common engine are using Unity (SimRail or (fictive) Derail Valley), others have their own engine (for example Run8, Zusi, Maszyna or OpenRails).


For German trains I use Zusi 3 Hobby and also I prefer trains without windows (except the loco, of course).

[Starlight ignited]

Originally posted by Metallos:

Ok, then it's TSW logic, inactive 2000ers became acvtive 1000ers...


Edit:
About the video one post above:

0:43 - Ks 1 which is also a distant signal with disctance lower than normal (white lamp at top left), only one magnet, seems to be a modern magnet which can be activated for 1000 or 2000 Hz (older ones have only one frequency so at a main signal with distant signal you needed 2 magnets). Train is running on LZB.

The following thing with the 90 km/h (it's NOT called "kph" !!!) it's really a bug with the HUD, it points to the Zs 3v. No wonder why the bugged HUD is needed, TSW still has no track plan or EBuLa. PZB acknowledge didn't need to be pressed because no announcement of a restriction below 90 km/h (the yellow 1000 Hz lamp didn't light up), but pressing too often is better than pressing too less...

You always depart too early. Not a problem with the signals but passenger trains aren't allowed to depart earlier than the timetable says (there were for example also passengers still coming down the stairs). Freight trains often have a timetable with a longer stop (for example let a bunch of other trains pass) but they can (and should, else the dispatcher would get mad) depart if they get for example a "go" (other than stop) signal 3 min before timetable.

3:50 / 4:20 - Maybe you got a Ks2 distant because there's a train in front of you, until you reached the next Ks2 the next block got free meanwhile.

4:50 - You have restricted speed (70 and 85 flashing) because you stopped / drove slow under PZB restrictions or changed direction. But has nothing to to with the bugging signal except it has an active 1000 Hz and you pressed PZB free the last 550 m before to get out of restricted speed (but this would result in a PZB emergency brake).

6:07 - Lamps / signal cable wired wrong, so the color glasses (or LEDs) were changed and the signal shows right aspect again. ;-)
Remember, Deutsche Bahn...

6:22 - We've one Ne 3 with 3 stripes missing in stock, so we take one with one stripe...

The last one: Maybe TSW has problems with the LZB end routine and switching over to PZB. Also UE (primarily made for first person shooters) is not very suitable for such simulators, other train simulators with a common engine are using Unity (SimRail or (fictive) Derail Valley), others have their own engine (for example Run8, Zusi, Maszyna or OpenRails).


For German trains I use Zusi 3 Hobby and also I prefer trains without windows (except the loco, of course).

Thanks for the Feedback but you know. I have over 1.500h Experience (or maybe even 2000h) in Train Simulation since 2016 and so I'm feeling very comfortable to tell where a bug is and where is not.

"0:43 - Ks 1 which is also a distant signal with disctance lower than normal (white lamp at top left), only one magnet, seems to be a modern magnet which can be activated for 1000 or 2000 Hz (older ones have only one frequency so at a main signal with distant signal you needed 2 magnets). Train is running on LZB."

I know the signalling for the common german signals (H/V and KS) very well since I'm living in germany. But I'll take the knowledge with the 2 magnets at that signal.

"The following thing with the 90 km/h (it's NOT called "kph" !!!) it's really a bug with the HUD, it points to the Zs 3v. No wonder why the bugged HUD is needed, TSW still has no track plan or EBuLa. PZB acknowledge didn't need to be pressed because no announcement of a restriction below 90 km/h (the yellow 1000 Hz lamp didn't light up), but pressing too often is better than pressing too less..."

Well, I've seen some english documents using "kph" "kilometers per hour" so I don't see anything false with that.
About the PZB Ackn... Yeah if the signal was working correctly then yeah, no need to press it. You can see at the end of the Video where I'm driving an S4 Service why I pressed it.

"You always depart too early. Not a problem with the signals but passenger trains aren't allowed to depart earlier than the timetable says (there were for example also passengers still coming down the stairs). Freight trains often have a timetable with a longer stop (for example let a bunch of other trains pass) but they can (and should, else the dispatcher would get mad) depart if they get for example a "go" (other than stop) signal 3 min before timetable."

Yeah I know that I depart too early and in real life, that's not to do at all (even though I've seen this some times in the last months IRL) I've departed early to stay in time with the timetable since it's impossible to drive from Hackerbrücke to Donnersbergerbrücke within 30 seconds.

Just checked the video again since it's a bit old by now. Yeah but the early department has no effect on the bugs shown in the video as you've already stated.

"3:50 / 4:20 - Maybe you got a Ks2 distant because there's a train in front of you, until you reached the next Ks2 the next block got free meanwhile."

There was no Ks2 behind me, also when looking "over" the distant signal forward to the main signal, you will see that it is already showing Ks2 and the Distant is showing Vr0

"4:50 - You have restricted speed (70 and 85 flashing) because you stopped / drove slow under PZB restrictions or changed direction. But has nothing to to with the bugging signal except it has an active 1000 Hz and you pressed PZB free the last 550 m before to get out of restricted speed (but this would result in a PZB emergency brake)."

This was the start of the S3 Service so yeah there is the PZB restriction mode active, however, even when the Signal shows Hp1, it still has sometimes the 1000Hz Magnet active.