A serious proposal for the whole community

[Ors00]

As it happened for TSW3 now also the discussion board of TSW4 is starting to get stained by useless post of people who doesn´t really want/need to have a serious discussion.

Examples are the recent post title "so this is fifa now?" and many similar more.

What I mean is posts that are there simply to troll/rant about the same stuff over and over again.

Now I get that certain people want to have a SERIOUS discussion about the future of this serie, where DTG is heading, etc, and let me be clear, I have absolutely nothing against these type of discussion.

What I have problems with is people who come here, maybe they even have bought TSW4 but then throw a couple of sentences like "why don't you upgrade the game for free" and disappear or keep trolling.

I kindly ask to the healthy part of the community, the poeple who care about the WORK that developers are doing, the people who have no problems having serious discussions supported by facts and common sense, even if critical of certain aspects of the game/marketing strategy, to COMPLETELY IGNORE these posts.

Let the trolls and people who have nothing to add to any real discussion rot in the emptiness of their useless posts.
And I know that your blood will boil at certain point just by reading the ridicoulus expectation of some. And I know you will have the serious itch to reply. But trust me, their blood will boil way more when they will discover that the attention they are craving for, as little kids they are, will be not met.

That's my 2 cents. Any help will be appreciated.

[Oz Gaming]

What DTG need to do is make it so that Only people who have bought TSW4 are the Only people who can post on the forum. That would get rid of 90% of the trolls etc.

[Virtual]

Originally posted by Oz Gaming:

What DTG need to do is make it so that Only people who have bought TSW4 are the Only people who can post on the forum. That would get rid of 90% of the trolls etc.

Some people ask genuine questions regarding games they don't own and I don't think it would be good to block them out from the discussion. People might also have bought the game on other platforms and might just be using Steam for asking help.

[huddo]

In the Middle East, they have a saying, "The dogs may bark, but the caravan moves on"

[Myron]

well said buddy, dropping a few points for this one

[🅵🆁🅴🅳🅴🆁🅸🅺]

Originally posted by Oz Gaming:

What DTG need to do is make it so that Only people who have bought TSW4 are the Only people who can post on the forum. That would get rid of 90% of the trolls etc.

It would become a very empty forum indeed lmao...

[dave46563]

Did it ever occur to you that the reason so many are annoyed is because they actually do care about the game, but they can see that what DTG are doing will eventually kill the franchise? If you don't like what people say then fine, ignore them. Simple as that. But DTG at least should be taking it all onboard. I know some DTG devs read the threads, unless they also ignore the ones that aren't favourable, and that wouldn't suprise me.

DTG almost have a monopoly on train sims, but that doesn't make them immune to criticism. I'm a die hard Train Sim Classic fan and I'm grateful to DTG who still support it and update it (for free). I don't care about being able to walk around. Never appealed to me. Some clearly do, which is why a lot of train sim fans asked for TSW. Credit to DTG, they did it.

But train sim fan or not, people will eventually lose patience with having to buy a new version every year, for very small updates (routes and trains aside, they can ALWAYS be released as DLC instead).
All I'm saying is, yes, ignore the ones who are seemingly laughing at DTG behind their computer screens. You've got the right. But some of those complaining are genuine and are just trying to show how frustrated they are with what DTG are doing. They should be listened to, not ignored. Willing to bet they want to support DTG, but can't understand why DTG are doing what they're doing.
Anyway, that's my Saturday night rant over. I'm grabbing a beer.

[CAMOGUY54321]

Originally posted by dave46563:

Did it ever occur to you that the reason so many are annoyed is because they actually do care about the game, but they can see that what DTG are doing will eventually kill the franchise? If you don't like what people say then fine, ignore them. Simple as that. But DTG at least should be taking it all onboard. I know some DTG devs read the threads, unless they also ignore the ones that aren't favourable, and that wouldn't suprise me.

DTG almost have a monopoly on train sims, but that doesn't make them immune to criticism. I'm a die hard Train Sim Classic fan and I'm grateful to DTG who still support it and update it (for free). I don't care about being able to walk around. Never appealed to me. Some clearly do, which is why a lot of train sim fans asked for TSW. Credit to DTG, they did it.

But train sim fan or not, people will eventually lose patience with having to buy a new version every year, for very small updates (routes and trains aside, they can ALWAYS be released as DLC instead).
All I'm saying is, yes, ignore the ones who are seemingly laughing at DTG behind their computer screens. You've got the right. But some of those complaining are genuine and are just trying to show how frustrated they are with what DTG are doing. They should be listened to, not ignored. Willing to bet they want to support DTG, but can't understand why DTG are doing what they're doing.
Anyway, that's my Saturday night rant over. I'm grabbing a beer.

This! This right here summarizes everything a lot of us feel. Very well spoken.

[pantonio]

I was going to start a thread but then I saw this. So I will post here.
I am not a train afficionado, I do not own the train games. However I very much enjoy open world games where you travel and view vistas in a relaxed manner.
I learnt about the TSW series from TSW2 and just got this game to pop up in my STEAM list because I had wishlisted both that game and TSW3 but never got around to purchasing them.

TSW2 was around for several years. I can't recall how many, but quite a few. And it had its DLCs and content updates.
I think that TSW3 has been around for only 2 years or less. And now I saw TSW4.
I thought about getting into the game but even if I just purchase the route DLCs only it is going to be a prohibitive cost.

I know the argument is that there is a lot of gameplay with only a small investment and that the game is a serious simulator and I get that. I respect the passion that people have in their hobbies.

I would like to know, however, how does the community views the release of a game 4 days ago and the release of 2k worth of DLC in 4 days. I honestly think that there is a serious flaw in the business model here and I think that the developers of this game are doing their game a disservice and seriously disrespect their fan base.
I may be wrong. It might be that I would like a version of this game so that I could go around in beautiful vistas and look at the scenery while not having to pay 2k.

However I honestly want the opinion of someone from the player base about what is the motivation of this company for this business model and how this community is dealing with it.

[Cygnifico]

People who dont have a game shouldn't be allowed to make posts or comment in the General forum of any game.

Steam needs to make some subforum system instead, where non owners can post their crap. So people who just want to have some GENERAL specific game chat can do so. If you own it on Epic Games, complain to Epic about their lack of a forum.

And even better, use the official DTG forums to complain or email their customer service, nobody here g.a.f.

[Cygnifico]

Originally posted by pantonio:

<snip>
I would like to know, however, how does the community views the release of a game 4 days ago and the release of 2k worth of DLC in 4 days. I honestly think that there is a serious flaw in the business model here and I think that the developers of this game are doing their game a disservice and seriously disrespect their fan base.
I may be wrong. It might be that I would like a version of this game so that I could go around in beautiful vistas and look at the scenery while not having to pay 2k.

<snip>

Use Googlemaps streetview or watch a walking video on Youtube if you want to enjoy FREE vistas.

DLC is transfered for free to a newer version up till now (TSW4). So if you bought anything from years ago for 5,- in a sale, it is also available to use in a newer version, it will probably not have all the newest features, but you didn't pay for those in the first place.

Besides that, you dont have to buy every single DLC.

[pantonio]

Originally posted by Cygnific:

Originally posted by pantonio:

<snip>
I would like to know, however, how does the community views the release of a game 4 days ago and the release of 2k worth of DLC in 4 days. I honestly think that there is a serious flaw in the business model here and I think that the developers of this game are doing their game a disservice and seriously disrespect their fan base.
I may be wrong. It might be that I would like a version of this game so that I could go around in beautiful vistas and look at the scenery while not having to pay 2k.

<snip>

Use Googlemaps streetview or watch a walking video on Youtube if you want to enjoy FREE vistas.

DLC is transfered for free to a newer version up till now (TSW4). So if you bought anything from years ago for 5,- in a sale, it is also available to use in a newer version, it will probably not have all the newest features, but you didn't pay for those in the first place.

Besides that, you dont have to buy every single DLC.

I never said that I wanted to enjoy free vistas. I said that I did not feel like paying 2k about them. I also mentioned that I understand that it is not necessary to buy every DLC, they are all optional.

My main question, however, was whether the game's community is satsfied with the business model that the devs are following.

I find it odd that they released a new version of the game 4 days ago and they already have 2k worth of content as DLC available.

It almost feels like they have the base game as a canvas and just want the community to purchase as DLCs content that they already have available.
It is ofcourse their perrogative and it is each buyer's wallet.
I just wonder what the community is thinking.

[Ors00]

I really like the direction this conversation is going for the most part.

Obviously some of you should read a bit more carefully what I originally posted.
I LOVE to have any type of civil conversation with ANYONE, but that's the base of my discussion.
People like dave46563, pantonio and Cygnific came here with valid points and opinions supported by facts and common sense, they demonstrated that they wanted to have a serious discussion. But then there's carrot, who came here, threw a bs and left. This is what I DON'T like, posts like this are a waste of time to be read or written even.

Now, coming to some specific points you guys mentioned I also want to express my opinion, concerns and ideas.

I picked this franchise because I'm in the autistic spectrum and train games are perfect for me, they are predictable, follows a routine and give me plenty of new things to learn and to master in my own ways.
Coming to DTG strategies and concerns let me start by stating the obvious. DTG is a company, not a NGO, and as EVERY other company in the world they are out for one thing and one thing only: profit.
Is this right or is this wrong is a matter of pure philosophy that would bring us to the deep roots of capitalism and honestly I don't think anyone would be interested in moving the conversation in that direction.
Companies are also private entities the majority of the time, which gives them the ABSOLUTE power to do whatever they want in term of marketing strategies according to the limit of the laws in the countries they operate. Which means we, as consumers, have 2 options: suck it up or not buying/using their products/services. And that's a FACT.

I, personally have no problems buying even a new TSW game every year if the overall balance is positive in my personal opinion. What I mean by that is that maybe many players founded the updates offered by TSW4 quite scarce, but this is not my case, so, summarizing, if TSW5 will offer the same amount of new improvements and features I will have no problems buying it as well.

About the costs, well, what can I say there? In my opinion is a mix, a mix of what someone can actually afford and how smart someone is.
I joined the TSW boat quite recently, having purchased TSW3 (the first game I bought) just last August. So as you can see I'm basically a newbie here. None thee less I have almost every DLC, with the exception of 4 or 5 routes still missing to my extensive collection.
Am I rich or is my dad a millionaire? Well not really, especially since it's usually me lending money to my dad XD
For all the routes and trains I own I paid barely 200 EUR in TOTAL.
So is this game REALLY coming with around 2.000 EUR worth of DLC? Depends on how smart you are I would say and I think my example perfectly shows this.
The difference between me and many which are constantly complaining about prices is, in my opinion, only one: I studied the marketing model of DTG, found pretty quick the main "flaw" and used it at my advantage without doing anything illegal. Again, matter of thinking wisely.

Now, will this marketing model eventually kill the franchise? That's hard to tell, but having worked in marketing myself I have my very informed opinion about it that I will not share here, I also have a clear idea about how to fix many of the problem that so many of you complain about in a satisfactory way for both consumers and DTG. But again, I don't work for DTG marketing department and it's not up to me to fix or give suggestions to their marketing department since they already have people there getting salaries for their job and.. last time I checked there were no inbound check for me from DTG :D

[Fishing4Trains]

Originally posted by pantonio:

I was going to start a thread but then I saw this. So I will post here.
I am not a train afficionado, I do not own the train games. However I very much enjoy open world games where you travel and view vistas in a relaxed manner.
I learnt about the TSW series from TSW2 and just got this game to pop up in my STEAM list because I had wishlisted both that game and TSW3 but never got around to purchasing them.

TSW2 was around for several years. I can't recall how many, but quite a few. And it had its DLCs and content updates.
I think that TSW3 has been around for only 2 years or less. And now I saw TSW4.
I thought about getting into the game but even if I just purchase the route DLCs only it is going to be a prohibitive cost.

I know the argument is that there is a lot of gameplay with only a small investment and that the game is a serious simulator and I get that. I respect the passion that people have in their hobbies.

I would like to know, however, how does the community views the release of a game 4 days ago and the release of 2k worth of DLC in 4 days. I honestly think that there is a serious flaw in the business model here and I think that the developers of this game are doing their game a disservice and seriously disrespect their fan base.
I may be wrong. It might be that I would like a version of this game so that I could go around in beautiful vistas and look at the scenery while not having to pay 2k.

However I honestly want the opinion of someone from the player base about what is the motivation of this company for this business model and how this community is dealing with it.

TSW3 was only around for less than a year before TSW4 came out. People have got the right to complain if they want to, this is an open forum and as long as they are paying customers they have the same rights as the OP. Otherwise we're going to end up turning steam into North Korea.

[emilies228]

Some of the language sounds provoking for those differing in thought.

Branding people as trolls, haters (I know you haven't used that term) etc is in a way stan minded and contrary to your post doesn't actually encourage positive discussion or civil debates. It's also considerably immature.

People have a right to vent, criticise and voice their views in their own ways, as long as they aren't harrassing or sending death threats around or trying to personally mess with the staff.

I don't get why it's so hard to accept, and you find the need to gaslight them instead.

Locking the game to buyers doesn't hide people or their criticism. It's effectively the equivalent of shoving a bag of trash under your carpet. You're beating around the bush for the sake of not tackling reality and the so called 'problem' remains. You will also face the problem that new buyers will also disapprove of DTGs business models and what then? You put your fingers in your ears and shout la la la hoping it goes away??

Again, having one at Carrot for voicing their thoughts isn't particularly encouraging either.

If anyone wants serious, civil discussion, while (neckbearding around a online forum is clearly not a place to start), you'll just have to accept that other people have the right to their view instead of branding them as trolls and attempting to shun opposition.

[N Quarter]

Originally posted by MoRoN222:

well said buddy, dropping a few points for this one

You dropping points just as much as you drop IQ.