Characters with disabilities

[Блудливый орк]

Will there be disabled people in the game?

The Sims series diligently ignored disabilities up to the fourth part - and then, catheters and hearing aids are listed as decorative items

I would like the game to have more features on this topic.

For example, so that blind characters when animating cooking put ingredients in a row to know where which ingredient is. It would be nice if blind people moved with a cane, and to interact with objects they would have to study them first

Deaf people could speak using sign language or notepad.

People with heart problems could use pills and would be prone to a heart attack (which are in Sims 4)

Separate animations could be created for people with missing limbs

Let us create our own Yamaku Academy from Katawa Shoujo in this game!

[GemSixx]

As a deaf person, I'm voting no. Also, as a cochlear implant user I can tell you that not all deaf people know sign language or use notepads. I can speak quite well and I can also lip-read.

I would be playing to forget such things as being deaf. I would not want to create a character like myself. I will be their goddess or watcher, not a character in the story.

I'm not speaking for all people with disabilities. But for me, that's a hard no.

[Xautos]

I have ADHD and a minor learning difficulty, i've had both all my life but the ADHD flared up in a big way a decade and a half ago.

i tend to vote no myself as well if it's going to be used in some grotesque entertainment value. last thing i want to see are screenshots of a mentally disabled person with the words "r*tard" and "sp*stic" next to it. That's just beyond the worse thing one can do to another with uncaring and unthinking remarks.

If disabilities are to be involved, they can't be there for entertainment purposes, for one to understand what some disabilities are like, they have to go through the motions of what it's like to look after such a person. Some people can't look after themselves or cloth themselves because of strokes or degenerative neurological diseases, so your sim has to keep on top of their needs and must be put those the various motions, make it as real as can be and give people the eye-opening experience of how bad it is for the victim being trapped in a meat cage with no independence often held to the whims of others, how much it costs to look after them, to get specialised help for them when your sim can't look out for them.

it's not just strokes or degenerative neurological conditions, but cancer and watching someone suffering through that horrible disease, Alzheimers, Parkinsons, severe mental disabilities where the person requires constant supervision.

If Rod Humble is not prepared to go through all that and make it as realistic as possible, then i would rather not see it at all going back to the first part of the second paragraph.

[Haruspex]

I'm going to go ahead and point to the modding capability as a solution here. Modding will be central to the experience here, and if there's demand for it, someone will mod it in.

[Piperbird]

Games like these don't ignore the disabled on purpose, no matter how many times people like to say it. Pathing for wheelchairs or crutches would be a nightmare. Just like IRL, they'd have to code how to reach cabinets, how to use the bathroom and shower, how to get in and out of bed. They aren't going to take the time to code blind people laying out food differently if they can just code one animation for everything. They aren't going to take the time to make sure every building in an open world, no rabbit hole city is accessible and coded for disability. It all takes time and money.

And yes, they have time and money, but it's all ROI. Are they going to spend the time and money on something not many people want, or time and money on stuff a lot of people want. They are a business. They're going to go where the ROI is.

[annedoe]

So the disabled people in the life-sim community who feel left out because they aren't been represented (unlike fact that now in Sims 4 some of the racial communities and the LTBGQ+ communities have been represented) aren't allowed to play a SINGLE-PLAYER game the way THEY might want too just because of haters or people who might use it in a bad way?


Using THAT kind of logical we might as well as get rid of everything in every-life sim that makes them a life-sim and make it an only a white YA male game! -racial minorites (both Black and Asian because some people don't see them as "real humans")- some people don't like them-so remove them, get rid of the trans/gay/lesbian/nb options-because of haters, get rid of women because men hate 'em, get rid of babys-teen because it could upset people who had a miscarriage or baby/child/teen died in an accident, /s


I know dolls aren't the same thing as a video game but Barble's fashtionita line of Barbie- has wheelchair (which incldues ramp), has a Barbie which has prostheic leg, one has a hearing aid, one is bald, there's even one which has braces!. I couldn't find any sales figures for them- but what I did find is that adults of children- said either the child was thrilled to have something that looked like them or looked like a relative they knew. Or in one case (hearing aid Barbie)- the reviewer's adult cousin was thrilled that Barbie had a hearing aid finally and they gave it to the reviewer's daughter because it looked like (cousin).

And American Girl Doll line been selling hearing aids for their 18" dolls. for some years now and that and some of their other disablity products (arm crutches, service dogs, even at one point an allgery free lunch kit!, and now those dolls can b fitted for glasses and braces even!) been really popular even back in 2013. And currently there's an "Allgery and Ashtma" and a "diabetes" set. All the reviews of the above were simliar to reviews from the Barbie Fashtionta line with the disabled Barbies- (ie the child or a relative of the child has disablity so they need X or Y to help them).

Not a big-name line but in 2013-someone had sold over 1,000 Down Syndrome Dolls, and had over another 1,000 pre-orders as of 2013 and the mom only started having those dolls made when her daughter when the daughter was nine - said "they couldn't find a doll which looked like her". And it was only 3 years at the time since the Mom started the company. So think of how many more they probably sold between 2013-now. And one of the first orders for the dolls wasn't for the family with a Down Syndrome's kid, but it was for kid's friend who had it.



So instead of the idea of disablities in a life-sim being a bad thing because of haters (haters going to hate)- it could have the oppisite effect as well. That because of more representiation-more people might want to play life-sim genre.




To close this off a way that LBY could handle it tasefully is to talk to us, the disabled community, about how disabltiies should be represented in the game. Paralives did a survey in summer of 2020 asking about disablties-maybe Rod Humble and Pardox could do something simliar?

[GemSixx]

Originally posted by annedoe:

So the disabled people in the life-sim community who feel left out because they aren't been represented (unlike fact that now in Sims 4 some of the racial communities and the LTBGQ+ communities have been represented) aren't allowed to play a SINGLE-PLAYER game the way THEY might want too just because of haters or people who might use it in a bad way?


Using THAT kind of logical we might as well as get rid of everything in every-life sim that makes them a life-sim and make it an only a white YA male game! -racial minorites (both Black and Asian because some people don't see them as "real humans")- some people don't like them-so remove them, get rid of the trans/gay/lesbian/nb options-because of haters, get rid of women because men hate 'em, get rid of babys-teen because it could upset people who had a miscarriage or baby/child/teen died in an accident, /s


I know dolls aren't the same thing as a video game but Barble's fashtionita line of Barbie- has wheelchair (which incldues ramp), has a Barbie which has prostheic leg, one has a hearing aid, one is bald, there's even one which has braces!. I couldn't find any sales figures for them- but what I did find is that adults of children- said either the child was thrilled to have something that looked like them or looked like a relative they knew. Or in one case (hearing aid Barbie)- the reviewer's adult cousin was thrilled that Barbie had a hearing aid finally and they gave it to the reviewer's daughter because it looked like (cousin).

And American Girl Doll line been selling hearing aids for their 18" dolls. for some years now and that and some of their other disablity products (arm crutches, service dogs, even at one point an allgery free lunch kit!, and now those dolls can b fitted for glasses and braces even!) been really popular even back in 2013. And currently there's an "Allgery and Ashtma" and a "diabetes" set. All the reviews of the above were simliar to reviews from the Barbie Fashtionta line with the disabled Barbies- (ie the child or a relative of the child has disablity so they need X or Y to help them).

Not a big-name line but in 2013-someone had sold over 1,000 Down Syndrome Dolls, and had over another 1,000 pre-orders as of 2013 and the mom only started having those dolls made when her daughter when the daughter was nine - said "they couldn't find a doll which looked like her". And it was only 3 years at the time since the Mom started the company. So think of how many more they probably sold between 2013-now. And one of the first orders for the dolls wasn't for the family with a Down Syndrome's kid, but it was for kid's friend who had it.



So instead of the idea of disablities in a life-sim being a bad thing because of haters (haters going to hate)- it could have the oppisite effect as well. That because of more representiation-more people might want to play life-sim genre.




To close this off a way that LBY could handle it tasefully is to talk to us, the disabled community, about how disabltiies should be represented in the game. Paralives did a survey in summer of 2020 asking about disablties-maybe Rod Humble and Pardox could do something simliar?

1. Explain how disabilities make sense in a world where there's no illness. Why would disabilities still exist in a world that has cured all illness.

2. This is an adult game, not marketed to kids.

3. This game will be fully moddable. Someone will make a mod. Maybe you.

4. You're the only one I've noticed calling people names.

5. There's still 5 more months until early access. Why not wait and see what it does have before you start insulting people for stating their opinion.

[Xautos]

Originally posted by annedoe:

To close this off a way that LBY could handle it tasefully is to talk to us, the disabled community, about how disabltiies should be represented in the game. Paralives did a survey in summer of 2020 asking about disablties-maybe Rod Humble and Pardox could do something simliar?

I'd join such a debate when you and others decide to bring your A games and show what disabled users can do on the most positive. Even the LGBT+ group needed to be on their best behaviour to get their point across over the decades, even if it got bogged down for decades in all sorts of things, they still made it through and today there is a broad acceptance for it.

I don't want the cause for disabled users to be turned into a joke because users started using the fallacy of "haters" to try make their point instead of actually having a point.

[annedoe]

Originally posted by Xautos:

Originally posted by annedoe:

To close this off a way that LBY could handle it tasefully is to talk to us, the disabled community, about how disabltiies should be represented in the game. Paralives did a survey in summer of 2020 asking about disablties-maybe Rod Humble and Pardox could do something simliar?

I'd join such a debate when you and others decide to bring your A games and show what disabled users can do on the most positive. Even the LGBT+ group needed to be on their best behaviour to get their point across over the decades, even if it got bogged down for decades in all sorts of things, they still made it through and today there is a broad acceptance for it.

I don't want the cause for disabled users to be turned into a joke because users started using the fallacy of "haters" to try make their point instead of actually having a point.

As I mentioned already Paralives is thinking about including it but nothing is confirmed. They also had a survey for disabled community to partake in during summer of 2020. Rod Humble and the Pardox team could do something simliar. And I know life-sim games aren't aimed at children nor are video games toys but for older generations who might be born with our disablities need to feel represented like the kids do when they see stuff like Barbie Fashtionista line or American Girl Disability Supports kits. When did I *ever* mention disablities coming from illness or accidents? I didn't.. all the disability commuinty who do want disablities to be finally represented after 23 years-want to create an authenic "pixel self" in pixel creator like racial minorities and LGBTQIA+ communities have slowly been represented in Sims 4 since 2014. I hate the fact tha when i send my Simself off to work that they magically change into contacts which in real life would mean I would loose my balance alot and get a lot of scraped knees. That simself is "fake" for me like people who use wheelchairs might feel their simself is "fake" because the simself can walk and they eihter can't walk at all, or can walk for short distants.

[GemSixx]

Originally posted by annedoe:

Originally posted by Xautos:

I'd join such a debate when you and others decide to bring your A games and show what disabled users can do on the most positive. Even the LGBT+ group needed to be on their best behaviour to get their point across over the decades, even if it got bogged down for decades in all sorts of things, they still made it through and today there is a broad acceptance for it.

I don't want the cause for disabled users to be turned into a joke because users started using the fallacy of "haters" to try make their point instead of actually having a point.

As I mentioned already Paralives is thinking about including it but nothing is confirmed. They also had a survey for disabled community to partake in during summer of 2020. Rod Humble and the Pardox team could do something simliar. And I know life-sim games aren't aimed at children nor are video games toys but for older generations who might be born with our disablities need to feel represented like the kids do when they see stuff like Barbie Fashtionista line or American Girl Disability Supports kits. When did I *ever* mention disablities coming from illness or accidents? I didn't.. all the disability commuinty who do want disablities to be finally represented after 23 years-want to create an authenic "pixel self" in pixel creator like racial minorities and LGBTQIA+ communities have slowly been represented in Sims 4 since 2014. I hate the fact tha when i send my Simself off to work that they magically change into contacts which in real life would mean I would loose my balance alot and get a lot of scraped knees. That simself is "fake" for me like people who use wheelchairs might feel their simself is "fake" because the simself can walk and they eihter can't walk at all, or can walk for short distants.

Wait, so all your "simself" needs is glasses? If that's true, LbY probably won't have the same bugs as Sims 4 (or any of the other in the Sims series for that matter). I'm almost certain they will have glasses that can can wear when you want.

My disability was not caused by illness or accident but yet I'd still be quite mad if deafness still existed when illness did not. If a world is advanced enough to not have illness, why wouldn't they be able to cure everything else?

[annedoe]

Originally posted by GemSixx:

Originally posted by annedoe:

As I mentioned already Paralives is thinking about including it but nothing is confirmed. They also had a survey for disabled community to partake in during summer of 2020. Rod Humble and the Pardox team could do something simliar. And I know life-sim games aren't aimed at children nor are video games toys but for older generations who might be born with our disablities need to feel represented like the kids do when they see stuff like Barbie Fashtionista line or American Girl Disability Supports kits. When did I *ever* mention disablities coming from illness or accidents? I didn't.. all the disability commuinty who do want disablities to be finally represented after 23 years-want to create an authenic "pixel self" in pixel creator like racial minorities and LGBTQIA+ communities have slowly been represented in Sims 4 since 2014. I hate the fact tha when i send my Simself off to work that they magically change into contacts which in real life would mean I would loose my balance alot and get a lot of scraped knees. That simself is "fake" for me like people who use wheelchairs might feel their simself is "fake" because the simself can walk and they eihter can't walk at all, or can walk for short distants.

Wait, so all your "simself" needs is glasses? If that's true, LbY probably won't have the same bugs as Sims 4 (or any of the other in the Sims series for that matter). I'm almost certain they will have glasses that can can wear when you want.

My disability was not caused by illness or accident but yet I'd still be quite mad if deafness still existed when illness did not. If a world is advanced enough to not have illness, why wouldn't they be able to cure everything else?

Everyone's utopia is different. What if in my version of a utopia disabled humans exist? Its a single player game- we should be able to play the way *we* want to play it.

[GemSixx]

Originally posted by annedoe:

Everyone's utopia is different. What if in my version of a utopia disabled humans exist? Its a single player game- we should be able to play the way *we* want to play it.

And you will. Some people might need a mod though.

[annedoe]

Originally posted by GemSixx:

Originally posted by annedoe:

Everyone's utopia is different. What if in my version of a utopia disabled humans exist? Its a single player game- we should be able to play the way *we* want to play it.

And you will. Some people might need a mod though.

That's one of the mainly problems about having to rely on third-party content to accurately represent ourselves in a society that we (the disabled commuinty who DO want disabilities to be represented in the life-sim genre). Espically if buildings aren't going to be accessible to people or the fact without codes in the game for accurate wheelchairs they are only going to be asthetic looks only.

Here's an entire blog post I did on this topic:

https://celoptra.wordpress.com/2023/04/13/why-i-think-disabilities-should-be-included-in-the-life-sim-genre/

[GemSixx]

Originally posted by annedoe:

Originally posted by GemSixx:

And you will. Some people might need a mod though.

That's one of the mainly problems about having to rely on third-party content to accurately represent ourselves in a society that we (the disabled commuinty who DO want disabilities to be represented in the life-sim genre). Espically if buildings aren't going to be accessible to people or the fact without codes in the game for accurate wheelchairs they are only going to be asthetic looks only.

Here's an entire blog post I did on this topic:

https://celoptra.wordpress.com/2023/04/13/why-i-think-disabilities-should-be-included-in-the-life-sim-genre/

I understand why you do want it in your game. But I don't and I don't want it forced on me. I deal with it enough in real life, I don't need it in my game that I'm playing to forget about real life. So, one of us will have to use a mod to either add it or remove it. They are adding all the tools they're using to make the game. If they are able to do it, anyone else will be able to also.

[annedoe]

Originally posted by GemSixx:

Originally posted by annedoe:

That's one of the mainly problems about having to rely on third-party content to accurately represent ourselves in a society that we (the disabled commuinty who DO want disabilities to be represented in the life-sim genre). Espically if buildings aren't going to be accessible to people or the fact without codes in the game for accurate wheelchairs they are only going to be asthetic looks only.

Here's an entire blog post I did on this topic:

https://celoptra.wordpress.com/2023/04/13/why-i-think-disabilities-should-be-included-in-the-life-sim-genre/

I understand why you do want it in your game. But I don't and I don't want it forced on me. I deal with it enough in real life, I don't need it in my game that I'm playing to forget about real life. So, one of us will have to use a mod to either add it or remove it. They are adding all the tools they're using to make the game. If they are able to do it, anyone else will be able to also.

Please read the blog I posted . I'm not the only person from the disablity commuinty who want to see disabilties in the life-sim genre. It was a hot-topic during the sims 3's days.



" We just want the ability to create an authentic pixelself in “character creator” as well as the accommodations and supports they might need in the main game for the disabled pixel to function in the pixel world- some examples are ramps, visible fire alarms/doorbells, or audio help depending on the pixel’s disability. But we could have disabilities turned off by default with the options to turn on disabilities in character creator or have them be born in-game with disabilities."


.and as I already stated there's problem with using 3rd-party content to make accurate pixelselves:

" There’s plenty of wheelchair CC but the only functional wheelchair CC either uses the Sims 4: Discover University bike code or you can’t use it in the house only outside of the house. Of course there’s also the problem of functional wheelchairs because it’s based off of bike code, or something else- there’s the problem of sims not sitting probably in them. But with the “story props” -they don’t move so it means you have to manually move them from Place A to Place B in Build/Buy Mode. But I’m really impressed by one simmer’s pose which has a sim using a wheelchair transferring to a bed or a couch. Of course we’re missing other items-like ramps, and low sinks and stoves *not* attached to the oven or wheel-in showers"


so just because I and other people in the disabled commuinty want to see disabilties in the life-sim genre-doesn't mean you would have to play as a disabled character-it would be an option for you to choose. But you shouldn't be forcing your idea of ableist-world on other people either..

[karinundmaedels]

No thanks. Disabilities in a game would be interesting, but NOT JUST because you say a part of a small community DEMAND them. Add specific disabilities to the game if they are enhancing the game experience, but if they aren't, then don't and wait for mods.